Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Walton Summit motorway

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus to delete, clear consensus that the article should not remain in its present state (hence a few "merge or delete" votes). I will follow the suggestion of the merge voters and merge this article with M65 motorway. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:42, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Walton Summit motorway

Minor roads are not a suitable topic for an encyclopaedia even one which is not paper. Tim Pope 11:16, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, motorways are inherently notable and encyclopedic, regardless of length. Kappa 13:40, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
  • ... or of actual existence as motorways by that name? Uncle G 15:01:44, 2005-08-07 (UTC)
• There is simply no such thing as "Walton Summit motorway". The concept of this stretch of road being a wholly separate motorway by that name is a simple invention of a "Pathetic Motorways" web site. (The other occurrences of this name on the Web, such as this one, and on Usenet, such as here, all turn out to have that web site as their source.) If you look at a map of the road you'll see that this is simply a common slip road, that was previously a stretch of "A" class road, but where now non-motorway traffic is barred for the very simple reason that there is no way of exiting that stretch other than by joining a motorway, and that is still labelled as the A6 on some maps. As I have argued before:
  1. The sign on the "Walton Summit motorway" in the photograph on the web site that says "Walton Summit" isn't naming the slip road. It's not a road name sign. It's a direction sign, pointing the way, off the interchange and along the slip road, to Walton Summit.
  2. There are plenty of motorway slip roads and other nameless motorway-class stretches of road in the U.K.. Here are some more. And here. And here.
  3. It's certainly going to be in the interests of a "pathetic motorways" web site (the only source for this information) to build up the importance of a road into a fully-fledged "motorway" simply so that it can have one more target to knock down as "pathetic".
• Whilst a country's major highways may warrant articles, we should draw the line at articles on their individual slip roads going by invented names. Delete. Uncle G 15:01:44, 2005-08-07 (UTC)
  • OK, lets look at some of the things that you claim. As I have pointed out previously to you, this is an extremely unusual sliproad. Show me another one in the UK that meets two motorways at the same time. Oh, you can't. There isn't one. There is no claim that it is a "fully fledged motorway". In fact, the site states "Really, it's an overgrown sliproad.."
  • Secondly "Walton Summit Motorway" is only a 'working name', until the correct name can be found through more research. This name is in common use throughout the British Roads community. There is no claim anywhere that the signpost pointing down the hill does anything other than point to a destination. Presumably you also don't recognise "Mancunian Way" but only A57(M)...
  • Thirdly, it was never previously a stretch of "A" road. It was new build and opened under motorway restrictions. This claim of being a motorway simply because it accesses a roundabout that meets only motorways is false. See M1 junction 21, for example.
  • Fourthly, I suggest you look up the meaning of "pathetic" properly... Pathetic Motorways does not simply exist to "knock targets down" - there's a heck of a lot of solid research that needs to go on to actually examine small motorways accurately. That's real genuine research that involves trawling round archive material located all around the country. It's not designed to be staid and boring, but interesting for the reader to learn some things. And yes, I'm very annoyed at the suggestion that it is just pure fantasy. You try doing some of the work!
  • However, I vote for Merge with M65 motorway, with possibly a link provided from M61 motorway. It's not important enough to be in Wikipedia in its own right, although it is something that is extremely unusual, so perhaps deserves a mention elsewhere. If it came down to it, I'd go Delete rather than Keep. And I wrote the bloody website! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.173.88.146 (talk • contribs) 11:25, 10 August 2005
• Keep. It is simply false to claim that the Walton Summit Motorway does not exist. The slip road has become legendary under that name and its status as a stretch of motorway, subject to UK motorway law, is indisputed. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 15:08, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
  • The thing that is actually false here is the claim that it has "become legendary under that name". That's uttter rubbish. It hasn't. As I said, the only source for that name, which isn't even in widespread use, let alone "legendary", is the "Pathetic Motorways" web site, which has simply made up that name for a common slip road. There is simply no such thing as "Walton Summit motorway". Uncle G 15:33:45, 2005-08-07 (UTC)
  • All you have established with the above reference is that there is no designated motorway by the name of the "Walton Summit Motorway". I also notice that the above map establishes that there is no such thing as the Newcastle Urban Motorway, nor even the Durham Motorway--two stretches of motorway that I'm intimately acquainted with. Well done: at this rate you'll have proven that there are no roads in Britain except those that are listed under official names on a map produced by the Department of Transport. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 15:51, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
    • And assuming this hyperbole were actually true, this exercise of verifiability in action would be a problem how, exactly?
      • There is no verifiability problem; there is simply a case of a guy showing a single map that doesn't list a particular entity. I don't know what you find to be hyperbolae here--is it my statement that the motorways in question aren't named on the map or my statement that they nevertheless do exist? Both statements are verifiably true. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 16:40, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. A 500-meter stretch of road with a name given to it by a website? --Calton | Talk 16:02, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Oh please. -- Francs2000 | Talk 17:06, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• On one hand, the name has been picked up by other sources. On the other hand, the naming isn't the best, and it should probably be merged somewhere. But it leads to two roads of equal importance. However, it was built at the same time as the M65, almost as a frontage road. I'd say merge with M65 motorway. --SPUI (talk) 17:26, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Who gives a shit what "Pathetic Motorways" says about a minor road? Nor does the article even indiacte what "Pathetic Motorways" is. -R. fiend 17:27, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Purported name gets all of 45 Google hits, many of them Wikimirrors. If this was actually a widely used term I'd expect to see a lot more. FCYTravis 17:36, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Article does not establish notability; in fact the article does not say anything above and beyond the fact that the road exists. How is this notable? Fernando Rizo T/C 19:39, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Abstain - My head says "delete" (apart from notability or not, that article is basically no more than a link to a website, which, incidentally, is a broken link). My heart says "keep" because I really like the name of the road. Tonywalton 19:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, not verifiable. — Stevey7788 (talk) 20:26, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, however merge the explanation of "does this exist" from the discussion page Paul Weaver 01:45, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nonnotable. Nandesuka 02:09, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep This road is of interest because of its nature. It is not just a link road to the national motorway network. This is a motorway standard road which is has an unclear status, revision and research into which may provide more information. 194.75.139.29 10:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC) Doktorb/Liam
• Delete, ludicrous. Proto t c 10:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. FOLKS, THIS IS NOT EVEN A B-ROAD. Pilatus 20:16, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
  • No it's either an A(M) or an A road. Much bigger than a B road. Secretlondon 15:26, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for any number of reasons given above. Sabine's Sunbird 19:17, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Interesting article that is needed to complete a set about British motorways, jguk 20:56, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge or Delete. Per the article, this "road" doesn't even have a name and isn't recognized as a separate road. It's just a couple of lanes, only 500 meters long, which lead into an actual road. Jonathunder 21:39, 2005 August 10 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable, subtrivial. CDThieme 13:33, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: Hardly notable. No Account 00:14, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to M65, as that's the motorway it was built with. Also merge in info from discussion page. Maybe have a brief mention in M61. I go past this every day on my way to work, it really is just a slip road, but the naming mess does make it marginally notable. And for those who claim its unverifiable, just look at the external link, it has a photograph of the sign for goodness sake. Far more amusing and pathetic IMO is the nearby roundabout at the end of the M65, which only has one exit and it is impossible to go all the way round, but don't worry I won't start an article on that :-) the wub "?/!" 10:52, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect as above --βjweþþ (talk) 16:16, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
• KEEP. Appears to be a quirky and notable if short roadway.Gateman1997 17:38, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.