Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vindibudd

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page, if it exists; or after the end of this archived section. The result of the debate was delete --FCYTravis 5 July 2005 09:11 (UTC)

[edit] Vindibudd

I'm actually rather sympathetic to the article, quite well documented/NPOV, but I just wanted to see what the community thinks, as it might as well be done now, not later. I'm actually voting Weak Keep. People voting here might want to look at A.S. Williams. -- Natalinasmpf 03:53, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Keep 18,000 matches for Vinibudd, top ranked ones seem related.Chairboy 04:08, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I would be very satisfied if that was an accurate representation, but one realises that most of it are forum posts that are rendered "irrelevant" by google: "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 154 already displayed." -- Natalinasmpf 04:12, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• This appears to be a vanity page, as both it and A.S. Williams below were created by User:Aswilliams. Moreover, only 150 Google hits are unique (see this search). So, delete. NatusRoma 04:15, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Comment I'm not going to vote on whether to keep it or not because I am the one who created the article. However, the article just explains what the character is with a description. It isn't meant to advertise as the comic has enough readers from being linked on fark.com twice. I draw two other comic strips that I don't have on wikipedia because I don't think they are worth it. Furthermore this is a valid webcomic of which there are many listed on wikipedia so if you delete this one you might as well delete all the rest like Gods_of_Arr-Kelaan or Count_Your_Sheep BOTH of which know me. If you want to kill the article because it is vanity, then you need to reread the policy on vanity. Also the comic was has won Featured Comic on drunkduck.com and best weird humor from. buzzcomix.net. Vindibudd is also listed in the yahoo.com comic strip directory. Aswilliams
  • It's not about the votes. This is a discussion to form a consensus, not a democracy. If you can explain how your web comic currently satisfies the criteria at Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics/Notability and inclusion guidelines, you can make a good argument for keeping an article on it. Uncle G 11:50, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)
    • I'm aware that this is not a democracy, nor is it a theocracy, dictatorship, or oligarchy. And if it is about forming a consensus then there is no need to point out that X user has only posted X number of times, thereby implying that his or her voice should be discounted. AccordingWikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics/Notability and inclusion guidelines I get 2 of three on the second criteria the only problem is that I wrote it myself. I think I am much more qualified to write the article than someone else and truth be told people have asked me to write it because they didn't see it here. A.S. Williams
      • There is a need, because we get people rigging votes, ie. due to sockpuppets, and that new users are often discouraged to participate in vfd until they learn the mechanics better through substantial contributions. Furthermore, if it is indeed notable, and from a NPOV, someone else will write it...ie. see Wikipedia:Autobiography - the idea is that if the author creates the article him or herself concerning his or her own works, the article will tend to be biased. I'm not very sure of its notability myself, given a google test, and impact on say, the international scene, the world, and as such. Its only borderline notable, but it seems like a valid encyclopedic article, and therefore I called a vfd to resolve it. -- Natalinasmpf 15:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • I hope you won't be discouraged to contribute by this, I just wanted to see what the community thought of it, because it would be likely there would be a vfd a few days or weeks down the road, and having me spotted it now would be faster. I'm voting weak keep myself. -- Natalinasmpf 14:09, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually I am very discouraged by this. I thought the point of Wikipedia was to publish articles that were informative for people that were seeking to learn about things. If people want to learn about webcomics then Vindibudd is by all accounts a valid example of one. The strip has close to 300 episodes in its archive and has been online since 2002. There are plenty of webcomics on wikipedia that do not meet superstar Penny Arcade level. But if people are really so consumed with making sure that OMG Vindibudd doesn't make it on wikipedia then what can I say. I don't need this article, I want the article but if you all just absolutely can't tolerate the article then I have nothing to say to that. Maybe you all just don't read webcomics. This is not self promotion. I can advertise on a ton of other sites. Burying an article that only people searching for webcomics and Vindibudd would find is not exactly what I would call a killer marketing strategy. A.S. Williams
      • Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, if it is indeed a valid example of one, one generally shouldn't create an example based on his or her own work, because questions of bias, hoaxes and deception come into play. If it is indeed that valid, then someone else besides the creator of the work should create the article. Of course there are exceptions, but given the small amount of notability of the comic and the author so far...we already have the quite respected climate modeller William Connolley (who is a Wikipedian at User:William M. Connolley, who being a scientist that has published numerous scientific papers (far more notable than a comic strip, for example) already met with a lot of controversy himself. The point is, this is just a discussion. I am glad to see you prove its notability, then that's what this vfd is for. Consider it nothing more than a court trial. Its not that we can't tolerate it, this is merely a discussion to reach a consensus on whether to delete it or not. Just because a vfd appears doesn't mean the community wants to delete it, that only happens after the vfd ends, and heck, appeals to the decision happen as well. And the problem is, Wikipedia is advoated as a neutral medium. It would be very good for advertisers to get their marketing schemes labelled as "not biased". To avoid controversy next time, a lot should be clarified in the article. Anyhow, you might win this. -- Natalinasmpf 15:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Weak delete per NatusRoma --Xcali 04:41, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Keep I see nothing wrong with this article. It is not espousing the comic as anything spectacular, it is not teling everyone that they should go to the website. It is simply an entry that gives the facts and also lets you link to more information. What else is an encyclopedic entry for? If someone else had put this article up, I'll bet it wouldn't even be challenged. So if it's the same article, but a different user, it'd be okay? That's either idiocy or hypocrisy. -Maddog3060 (actually 24.110.193.97 04:47, 2005 Jun 20 according to edit history. Uncle G 11:50, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC))
• Keep I personally see no problem with it, it does keep within the guidelines. The article is in encyclopedia form and doesn't advertise itself all over the place. It just gives a detailed description of who he is, and what he does. I suppose the fact that it was written by the Author of the comic would draw a bit of speculation and criticism, it really doesn't stand out as vanity in my opinion. Kainchaos
  • The above comment is this user's first and only edit. Uncle G 11:50, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)
• I would be willing to read this, suitably updated over time, as a means of keeping in touch with the subject. Whether, in 20 years' time, people give the proverbial ... --Simon Cursitor 07:23, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Delete self-promotion by A.S. Williams. JamesBurns 07:36, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Delete creator's username indicates vanity. Notability is borderline at best. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 11:13, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Come on, let's allocate 800 spaces for anyone else who's a fan of some obscure comic. I doubt even other fans would even consider wiki would carry it and wouldn't even search for it. This is a good piece, but it belongs on the web at some fansite.--0001 14:14, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Delete: The problem for me is not "vanity" or that the author wrote of his own work. In some cases, that's not a bad thing, as the article is generally NPOV. The problem for me is that artworks should be encyclopedic if they are first of their kind, leading examples of their genres, or substantially influential. If they are breakthroughs of style or subject, they're encyclopedic. If an understanding of them is vital for a historical moment (not "nice to have" but vital), they should be included. In the case of web comics, that excludes all but the incredibly famous ones. No ill-will involved, just a judgment on what is encyclopedic. Geogre 17:18, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Like Geogre said, it's not necessarily a problem a vanity, but a problem of relevance. Wikipedia is a more liberal and open version of World Book or Britannica. Neither of those encyclopedias would carry this article because the cartoon and cartoonist haven't had wide-reaching effects on the world. Wikipedia shouldn't publish the articles, because the work isn't notable enough to call for an article, not even on the Internet. I say wait a few years. If the man or the work gets a spot on television or it garners major critics' (not at some niche website) praise; then it would deserve a place on Wiki. However, the article IS well-written and informative. If the subject ever becomes popular, notable, or influential, then by all means publish it here. Volatile 17:58, 20 June 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per google results and over 100 episodes. Kappa 19:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Geogre and for vanity. Alexa rank 1,515,306, no other claims to notability (DrunkDuck's featured comic is a transient "hey, check this out" sort of thing, not a particularly prestigious award; BuzzComix seems to be closely affiliated) — Gwalla | Talk 20:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I've lost my taste for the whole thing, especially after reading Gwalla's profile about being a webcomic fan and the subsequent ill-informed commentary on my own comic. This was not a vanity article and the reception that I have received here has completely turned me off of wikipedia period. Congratulations. I'll make it my mission that Vindibudd will never be listed here. Good luck. A.S. Williams
• No vote, just a comment to Mr. Williams: it's no major loss to us if your comic doesn't have an article. Wikipedia might be on the internet, but that doesn't mean the people here care about your part of the internet. There are 1000's of webcomics. What makes an encyclopedia care is this: what did you do differently? humblefool® 23:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • • Obviously it's not a loss that my comic is not on wikipedia. It also wouldn't be a loss if 90% all the other webcomics listed here were not. I am positive that wikipedia will not come crashing down tomorrow because it has no contribution from me. Imagine that. I bet it also won't come crashing down if you suddenly stop contributing either. But just because you don't like something or are not interested in something does not automatically make it uninteresting. Which seems to be the major theme here. "I've never heard of it and it doesn't get 200000000 hits a day. That must mean that it isn't worth an article." Shockingly, I didn't see that listed as a requirement. In fact, the vfd policy explicitly states that "lack of fame" is not a valid reason for deletion. Additionally, I wrote an informative article that was not a vanity piece. Here is an example of a vanity piece so you can tell the difference in the future: "X comic is the best comic ever made. Go there now because it is really awesome and you have to see it." The charge that I am promoting myself is rather ludicrous as the I can pay less than $10 and get a few thousand uniques on my site in a single day whereas it would probably take years to accumulate that many from a wikipedia article. So faced with the prevailing attitude of negativity, I'm just not fighting it. You have won whatever argument we were having.A.S. Williams
      • Actually if it becomes that notable, and if it is listed, you will probably have little power to influence it. This rather seems like sour grapes, but I honestly hope you will change your mind about contributing. The point isn't about "lack of fame", but about notability. In case you didn't know, Wikipedian contributors have many attitudes, one has a "no harm in keeping it" and "no use in keeping it", attitude, in terms of half-full and half-empty. I tend to prefer keeping it, but I put it up for vfd to speed the process. Furthermore, it hasn't decided whether its an "honest article" yet, considering that Encyclopedia Britannica will probably not even put your article up. There's a difference between adveritising and vanity, by the way. The article was perfectly neutral, that was one of its best points, however, it gains attention towards itself, and becomes part of Wikipedia canon, and therefore self-centred when it is being contested whether or not it deserves it such in an encylopedia. Its a complex issue: and please, don't try to oversimplify the Wikipedia community as it holds complex views as it is. Its not just because SOMEONE doesn't like it, or finds it uninteresting, I hope you know, but this is a community effort in general. Furthermore, we are using notability guidelines here, we're not judging in on finding it "uninteresting", but whether it merits the reader. -- Natalinasmpf 00:52, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be placed on a related article talk page, if one exists; in an undeletion request, if it does not; or below this section.