Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Viking (musician)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was delete. Given the relatively spare discussion here, I'm relying on the precedent of June 16 (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francesca Ortolani). Mackensen (talk) 23:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Viking (musician)

Previously deleted as Francesca Ortolani on June 16; author was warned against recreating article and did it anyway. Also nominating the following related articles:

• L'eco della Battaglia
• Gloucester Road (album)
• AshTree Records

NawlinWiki 18:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete All Some shocking vanity on offer here folks. But no notability. --DaveG12345 19:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Shouldn't we assume good faith? We can't assume the creator of the article is the subject or close associate/relative/etc. of the subject. Parsssseltongue 19:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Of course I am assuming good faith - not everybody editing WP knows what bad ideas for an article are, for example. I am not criticising the author(s) in any way, so this seems a somewhat straw-man argument. What I am doing, is reporting the evidence before my very own eyes, that the article(s) IMHO read as vanity, replacing encyclopedic requirements with quoted gush from the subject of the article themselves. Whether it's the principal writing it themselves, or their bestest biggest fan, the result is the same. --DaveG12345 20:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Understood. Whenever people say "vanity," I assume they're talking about the official policy, and just wanted to clarify what you meant. Parsssseltongue 21:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Based on this story alone[1], Ortolani seems like a very notable musician. Maybe editors could do some work on cleaning the article up, citing more sources (1,000 Google Yahoo hits, by the way), but deletion seems inappropriate. The only reason, I think, it didn't pass AfD last time was because not enough people cared enough to do vote on it, let alone research it. Parsssseltongue 19:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment It should go without saying that a vote for "keep" or for "delete" is not an endorsement or condemnation of the artist's political views (but I'm going to go ahead and say it anyway). Parsssseltongue 19:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Another comment The article mentioned above is from some Italian nationalist/fascist website. Has she gotten any mainstream coverage? I didn't see any. NawlinWiki 19:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
    • I didn't wade through all 620 Google hits to find out. Nor do I know enough about Europena press outlets to deem what is "mainstream" or not there. But she seems to be a notable artist in her notable style, regardless of anyone's opinion of her politics (or maybe BECAUSE of her politics). My vote here is not based on love of the artist, simply that it seems obvious to me that she's notable. Parsssseltongue 19:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment That particular article proves, to me, absolutely nothing as regards notability.--DaveG12345 19:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, well I don't make a habit of reading Italian nationalist/fascist websites, but I don't claim to be an authority on Italian musicians, either. Seems like the artist's obscurity in America is the reason for citing her as "non-notable." Again, this isn't about the artist's politics, it's about her notability. Not trying to prove a point, just trying to judge objectively on the merits of the article. Parsssseltongue 19:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment No points being made by me here either, no worries, and politics are no issue (neither I nor anyone else here has mentioned politics, only you). Objectively viewing the article myself, personally, I find nothing but vanity from stem to stern. The website (as the previous AfD pointed out) ranks not a blip at Alexa - that is an exceptionally unnotable web presence by any estimation. There are actually 98 unique Ghits, not >600. I'm sorry, but objectively trying to judge this article on its merits, I see nothing but vanity by a nn. --DaveG12345 19:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: The original article was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francesca Ortolani. I can't tell if this new article is the same content as the deleted article, but if it is, then it's a speedy delete under WP:CSD G4. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 19:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I have no way of knowing, but I assume it's the same content. Still, I think we should hammer out whether or not the subject is notable rather than stick to the CSD G4 provision. A look at the old AfD reveals that not much discussion really happened. Parsssseltongue 19:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per DaveG12345 --Macarion 19:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. It's beyond vanity and into the realm of personal webspace. I see attempts at grasps of notability, but not notability itself. -Markusbradley 07:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment A couple delete votes and a keep vote don't seem like much of a consensus. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 05:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• For full disclosure, the Keep vote was yours, Mr. "PT". :-) --DaveG12345 21:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
  • LOL. True. I'm predicting this will be a no consensus decision. It's been five days, right? (though I've never answered to Mr. or Ms., regular gender non-specific "PT" is fine with me) PT ^(s-s-s-s) 22:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Apologies Parsssseltongue-of-non-specific-gender-here. :-) FWIW, I predict a delete or (at the very least) a re-list to garner more interest. All obfuscation aside, you based your keep on a source that was not - shall we say - reliable third-party stuff per WP:V, didn't you? Let me know if you think this assessment is incorrect. --DaveG12345 22:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the specific source I pulled is definitely not third party, nor anyone I would endorse, but I don't know enough about fascist publications to say which ones are notable or non-notable. I just feel that the problem here is none of us know enough about her notability in Italy to make judgement, so we should err on the side on inclusion. But that's just my philosophy.PT ^(s-s-s-s) 22:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

WP:V explicitly does not "err on the side of inclusion". Why should we? --DaveG12345 22:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Viking Francesca Ortolani is NO POLITICAL SINGER! She has been (is?) a fascist supporter, but would you delete any article about fascism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.140.16.182 (talk • contribs)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.