Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victor Shepherd

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. ST47Talk 11:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victor Shepherd

Victor Shepherd (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

non-notable biography. Article asserts no real encyclopedic value; seems to be just another university prof, and an adjunct at that. Agent 86 06:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. "University professor" does not meet BIO by itself. Madman 15:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment His awards (see my comment near the end) make him pass both WP:PROF and WP:BIO. Do you not agree? --Quirex 19:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Author of several books, but might not pass WP:BOOK. He is a full-time professor at one university-level institution (Tyndale University College and Seminary), and adjunct at another, the University of Toronto and its school of theology. The honorary degree would be proof of notability if it were from a more pretigious institution. I was only able to find one published review of his books, although a Google search for "nature and function of faith in the theology of John Calvin" turns up a few citations of that book. --Eastmain 18:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • comment an area he preaches/teaches/writes/studies is Methodism. Wesley was the founder of methodism and thus the institution which bears his name might be very notable in the study of Methodism. --Quirex 07:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete no assertion of notability, does not appear to pass WP:PROF. Pete.Hurd 19:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Disagree Pete Hurd is citing a proposed guideline;WP:PROF has not been adopted and is heavilly disputed. The current professor test at BIO states: "If the individual is more well known and more published than an average college professor (based on the U.S. practice of calling all full-time academics professors), they can and should be included."--Kevin Murray 00:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I see no evidence that WP:PROF is "heavily disupted". To the contrary, a quick look through Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Academics and educators shows it to be the accepted standard for academics. Pete.Hurd 05:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Pete, please read the tag at the top of the page for WP:PROF: "The following is a proposed Wikipedia policy, guideline, or process. The proposal may still be in development, under discussion, or in the process of gathering consensus for adoption. References or links to this page should not describe it as "policy".--Kevin Murray 08:07, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Academics and educators is not WP policy. It is an opinion statement by a group of Wikipedians. You've been duped! --Kevin Murray 08:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ummm, I didn't say that page was policy, I merely note that it's a deletion sorting list, which allows one to view all the AfD's for educators and academics together in one place. I've removed the "proposed" template you put on the page, since it's not a proposal, it's a sorting list. Pete.Hurd 19:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, your statement is misleading. The fact is that there is only one recognized Prof standard and that is the one at BIO. WP is getting overburdened by rule-mongering, and micro-lawyering. BIO is relatively simple and comprehensive. The ongoing efforts to "clarify" seem to just become more and more restrictive, redundant, and conflicting. --Kevin Murray 20:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Special:Whatlinkshere/Wikipedia:Notability (academics) supports Pete's assessment. WP:PROF is frequently applied when discussing academics. ~ trialsanderrors 05:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete From the information provided in the article, this particular professor does not meet notability requirements. I have several professors at my graduate school who have done much more than this person and still don't merit having articles of their own. If some sources can be provided that show that his books are notable then I'd be willing to change my 'vote' to keep. --The Way 00:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Why do you say that--I congratulate you on the excellence of your graduate school judging from the apparent notability of your teachers: you most certainly should write articles about them, or enter on the list of requested articlesDGG

Excellent remark! Ohconfucius 03:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Passes professor test absolutely and seems to make it as an author as well. He only needs to pass one test to be deemed notable. I see a review of his work by an independent source, and a biography at another independent source. What's the problem? --Kevin Murray 00:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Comment To establish notability you need multiple reviews, the article supplies only one and that one source is rather non-notable itself. Also, there is no independent biography; I believe the biography you consider to be independent is a biography on a Writer's Union website, in other words that biography is likely to have been submitted by Victor himself since he is a member of that union. This is supported by the fact that that biography gives Victor's email address for responses... --The Way 01:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

You're right and wrong (a) he doesn't have to pass all tests; the multiple reviews is just one test. The Professor Test has different criteria (b) from what you say the Writer's Union website may not be an independent source. --Kevin Murray 08:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletions. -- Pete.Hurd 02:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per The Way. Subject does not appear to pass WP:PROF; of 7 books listed on Amazon.com, the highest ranking one is in the 1.5millionsths, the other ones languish in the 3 - 4 millionsths region, and there are no signs of published reviews. Ohconfucius 03:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• comment Academic works in theology are not expected to be best sellers and should not be judged by the Amazon rank. Popular ones, yes, but thats not what he has been writing. DGG 01:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep according to WP:PROF, if the subject has been given an award or honor they meet one of the 6 criteria for inclusion. Dr. Shepherd has an honorary doctorate given to him for his work. A note in WP:PROF says that a professorship at a prestigious institution is enough to grant inclusion. Unfortunately WP:PROF is not specific and does not mention honorary doctorates. Although his CV does list a bunch of awards. According to WP:BIO one criteria for inclusion is "Published authors, editors and photographers who received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work." 2 awards of possible note would be: "Award of Excellence for Outstanding Contribution in the Fields of Historical-Systematic Theology and Preaching, Center for Mentorship and Theological Reflection, 2004" and "Scholarship Excellence Award, Tyndale University College & Seminary, 2006". So it seems he meets both WP:PROF and WP:BIO primarily due to his awards. --Quirex 07:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Notability I believe is establised. Dwain 00:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment since I created the original entry, but the comments regarding Amazon sales rankings are not a fair comparison given that (1) the Dr. Shepherd is Canadian and (2) the books are Christian in content which would mean they would usually be sold through the CBA market rather than secular channels. Dr. Shepherd teaches theology at the largest evangelical university/seminary in this country -- does this not count for something?Robclem 04:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• keep since I see I didnt actually express an opinion. This time there are external articles, just as for non professors. There is nothing special about professors that isn't implied by the general N policy. "another prof" and may we have many thousand more--all N--just like major league athletes. (""Sportspeople/athletes who have played in a fully professional league, "--WP:N)--there a a few thousand of them also. DGG 06:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. I have improved this article to demonstrate notability, and would like to point out that the media coverage on [1] should be accepted as factual, because this man is very respected, holding positions at the most reputable divinity institutions of the world, and these publications are either not online, or only recently online and their archives dont go back this far. Refer to United Church Observer, a stub I have created for one of these publications. John Vandenberg 08:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Prosified CV. No notability outside common accomplishments within the profession established or even asserted. ~ trialsanderrors 00:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
• Note. A search on Wikipedia for "Victor Shepherd" brought up four articles, which I have now linked to the article. (see Special:Whatlinkshere/Victor_Shepherd) Three of those were using Victor's biography of the subject as a reference: Menno Simons, Thomas Torrance and Thomas Coke (bishop). These were all published in his book "Witnesses to the Word". The book isnt terribly notable in its own right, but it covers a lot of notable people, so I expect it will be useful to fill in missing articles. John Vandenberg 03:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.