Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vergennes Union High School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Bduke (talk) 01:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vergennes Union High School

Vergennes Union High School (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable school, written like an ad. Jonathan 01:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Poor-quality article, should be cleaned up, but definitely notable as a high school. Nyttend (talk) 01:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment 700 students doesn't seem notable to me. I've seen high schools with many more students. Can you justify notability, please? Thanks! Jonathan 01:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I assume he is one of those editors who think that high schools are automatically notable despite not having a single guideline or policy supporting that claim (in other words, baseless claims of notability). TJ Spyke 01:54, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, obviously, many high schools are far bigger, but to my experience with AFD highschools have generally been seen as inherently notable. No single case can decide it, but check AFD archives for recent months and it should be obvious. Nyttend (talk) 01:55, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Seeing that I had an edit conflict: as Wikipedia is built on consensus, unless my assertion that highschools have generally been kept as notable in AFD discussions, I don't see why that should be ignored as you seem to me to be saying. Nyttend (talk) 01:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• Delete as nom Jonathan 01:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete No claims of notability, fails WP:N. TJ Spyke 01:54, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
  • To anybody who might say "give it some time", the article has existed for over 3 YEARS with no sources. TJ Spyke 01:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:SCHOOL -- Masterzora (talk) 02:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

That's not an official policy yet. Thus, in my opinion and I think per policy, the policy can't be cited. Jonathan 02:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

You are correct, that is just a proposed policy (one that has multiple different proposals, only 1 of which would make all schools notable). That means it has not power over articles, and is no different than citing an essay (which is just the opinion of who wrote it, not guideline or policy). TJ Spyke 03:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions. —RMHED (talk) 02:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep There does appear to be several significant citations about the school in Google News [1]. Also, wasn't this one of the handful of groups who actually protested against the war in Iraq before the war even started? That alone would make the school notable. --Polaron | Talk 03:21, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• keep per WP:OUTCOMES Chris (クリス) (talk) 03:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Um, care to cite an actual policy or guideline? OUTCOMES in an unsourced opinion piece based on the general outcomes of articles. It isn't meant (or should be) a guideline as to how AFD results should end. I cited an actual guideline that the article fails. TJ Spyke 03:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Reply: It's just like you stated above: if he's citing something not policy, then it's being cited as an opinion argument rather than an argument from policy. Doesn't make the citation any less valid, it just serves a different purpose. -- Masterzora (talk) 06:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, does not appear to be a particularly notable school. Most of the Google News links are just offhand mentions of the school in sundry legal proceedings, as far as I can see. Lankiveil (talk) 05:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC).
• Keep A brief start found some twenty or so state championships. Other claims of notability seem available to be added. The claims, supported by reliable and verifiable sources satisfy the Wikipedia:Notability standard. This is an actual guideline that the article passes. Alansohn (talk) 06:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep a brief google news search showed that there are sources out there, and it has been established many times that all secondary schools are notable because they are a major part of many 1000s of people's lives over their existence. Fosnez (talk) 06:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Delete no real assertion of notaiblity, per nom. Just because many people have been there does not make something notable. Something acctually has to occur. Narson (talk) 08:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
  • And in reference to state championships, they don't confer notability to the people who won them for the school, why would they confer them to the school? Though, the censorship case does edge me more towards a merge if I could find the appropriate article (Censorship in the United States?). For now changing to Weak Delete from Delete. Narson (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
    • As people seem to be rattling on about alumnus....being married to a famous person does not confer notability...now...if screwing the married people, devoting your life to them, having children with them, sharing their life, what have you, doesn't confer notability...the fact that at some point they were required to go to that place for a period of their day for certain parts of the year for a handful of years obviously shouldn't. Narson (talk) 20:13, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
      • Unlike prison, school is not merely a place where someone is sentenced to serve 4-12 years, with time off for good behavior. Above and beyond the fact that society dictates that children of school age must attend school, the school is required to provide an education to these children. As part of providing this education, the teachers and faculty of the school play a strong role in molding the future notable. Whether that person is a future politician, actor, athlete, comedian, etc., the school plays a critical role in shaping the individual and establishing his notability. If the school accomplishes the goal of molding a future notable and manages not to screw the student, that connection is notable. If the school manages to be the source of multiple notables, all the more so. Alansohn (talk) 23:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
        • You don't consider prison an experience that would change someone? Crashing into a lamp post changes a person in a far more direct way, I doubt the lamppost has notability transferred at point of impact, if you will pardon the clumsy metaphore. I honestly doubt school plays an important part in, say, a reality TV show winner or some of the other more 'random' notable persons. Regardless, I would say that makes something possibly of value to be mentioned in the persons article, rather than have its own, but, as people wish it, so it shall be. One can only hope such trivialities get weeded out at version 1.0 (if we ever get so far). Narson (talk) 03:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep for info and sources added. Secondary schools tend to be notable per WP:OUTCOMES. The Bicknell v. Vergennes Union High School court case helped set boundaries in school censorship and several books have been written about it. Also, the school's athletics have won several state championships. • Gene93k (talk) 10:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• My school's band has won several national championships, but that doesn't automatically make it notable. Jonathan (talk • contribs • complain?) 00:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Please let me know what high school you attended so that I can be sure to include the championship details in the article or create the article if it doesn't exist. As you can clearly see here, such awards and recognition are exactly among the characteristics that make a school notable, as longstanding consensus has shown. Alansohn (talk) 01:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Sheesh, never mind the longstanding consensus that we ought to keep articles about high schools, an important federal case about censorship involved this school. There should be absolutely, positively no question that this article is notable. Squidfryerchef (talk) 15:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - Fails WP:N and appears to be an advertisement. Macy's123 review me 17:58, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - per Gene93K. State championships and a court case of that magnitude definitely show notability. matt91486 (talk) 22:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep AFAIC high schools are notable. RMHED (talk) 00:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Can you please cite that it is ASAIC? Jonathan (talk • contribs • complain?) 00:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep This school along with several others were involved in a court case that focused on book censorship in school libraries which has received substantial coverage in many books. [2] Reference to this court case and school is common whenever court cases regarding book censorship comes up so that makes the school notable. Winning several championships also establishes some notability. --Hdt83 ^Chat 08:45, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
• Strong keep - obviously. Notable court case, numerous state championships, notable alumnus etc = easy compliance with WP:N. TerriersFan (talk) 17:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep meets WP:N. Noroton (talk) 20:00, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per terriersfan. JERRY ^talk _contribs 15:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.