Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valentin Radu
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Keep - appears to be a consensus that the subject is notable, if the article is poorly sourced. Unsourced material can be removed until source. WilyD 16:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Valentin Radu
Where to begin? First off there are many leaders of small chamber groups, and many random Romanian musicians, who in both cases are not renowned enough to merit a wikipedia article. A quick perusal of the article shows that those who constantly update the page are prone to hyperbole to make him seem more famous, for example claiming that Devon Prep's musical productions which he directs are locally known when in fact they are no better known than any other Philadelphia Catholic high school, if at all. A brief lookover of the history of updates makes it clear that this page makes a mockery of wikipedia as on a regular basis students of Dr. Radu drop by to write jokes and outlandish statements about him, only to have them reverted and then another take its place. I see no reason for why he is famous and believe this should be promptly deleted. Vartan84 (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. This is a peaceful little page that's been on my watchlist for ages, since it's vandalized by his students once every other month. Frequency of vandalism is not normally considered to be a reason for deletion, and in fact this is a very low frequency. He has two albums listed at allmusic.com that are released on the Lyrichord label. This seems to satisfy the requirements for notability under WP:MUSIC, so I'm not sure where you got the technical term 'godforsaken' that you used in the edit summary. No evidence has been offered that God is displeased with him. I'm not in a position to evaluate the 'Grand Officer of Cultural Merit' offered by Romania. Since no reference for that claim is provided, perhaps it should be removed from the article. But the record releases seem to establish notability. The Lyrichord label doesn't have its own article but it's referred to in 16 other Wikipedia articles. EdJohnston (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
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- You are misrepresenting my points. Constant vandalizing is obviously not a reason for deletion, but it's clear that this page is used as one big joke by his students and that they constantly use unsupported hyperbolic statements as a reason to keep it. Also your logical leap of "a few other people who have released an album with Lyrichord have wikipedia pages, therefore all people who have released anything on Lyrichord are automatically famous" is a fallacy. Not all Lyrichord-releasers are created equal or equally famous, and as mentioned below it is hardly a major label to begin with, hardly complying with the wikirules as you say it does. Vartan84 (talk) 21:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm responding to the issue of whether Lyrichord ought to be taken seriously as a record label. Note this wording from WP:MUSIC, when discussing notability of a performer: Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable). According to its website, Lyrichord has existed since 1950, so it meets the requirement of 'more than a few years.' Having a roster of performers, many of which are notable, seems to be satisfied by this list of musicians who have Wikipedia articles, and thus may be considered notable, and have works published by Lyrichord: Verna Gillis, Alejandro Planchart, Liang Tsai-Ping, Ephat Mujuru, Shafaatullah Khan, Laxmi Ganesh Tewari, Colin Turnbull, The Jolly Boys and Guilherme Franco. EdJohnston (talk) 22:34, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- It should be noted that most of those artists' articles are either stubs or contain paragraphs and paragraphs worth of unsourced claims. It makes one wonder whether Lyrichord itself isn't creating these pages for its artists, which would constitute a gross disregard of wikipolicies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.5.144 (talk) 23:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm responding to the issue of whether Lyrichord ought to be taken seriously as a record label. Note this wording from WP:MUSIC, when discussing notability of a performer: Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable). According to its website, Lyrichord has existed since 1950, so it meets the requirement of 'more than a few years.' Having a roster of performers, many of which are notable, seems to be satisfied by this list of musicians who have Wikipedia articles, and thus may be considered notable, and have works published by Lyrichord: Verna Gillis, Alejandro Planchart, Liang Tsai-Ping, Ephat Mujuru, Shafaatullah Khan, Laxmi Ganesh Tewari, Colin Turnbull, The Jolly Boys and Guilherme Franco. EdJohnston (talk) 22:34, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- You are misrepresenting my points. Constant vandalizing is obviously not a reason for deletion, but it's clear that this page is used as one big joke by his students and that they constantly use unsupported hyperbolic statements as a reason to keep it. Also your logical leap of "a few other people who have released an album with Lyrichord have wikipedia pages, therefore all people who have released anything on Lyrichord are automatically famous" is a fallacy. Not all Lyrichord-releasers are created equal or equally famous, and as mentioned below it is hardly a major label to begin with, hardly complying with the wikirules as you say it does. Vartan84 (talk) 21:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- Delete. The guidelines state two or more records released by a renowned / reputable label. Lyrichord is hardly such a label. The article should at least be revised, and if nothing else, the claims that lack citations (most of them) should be deleted, as well as the overly dramatic statements involving Devon Prep. Once all of those things are deleted, we'll hardly be left with any article at all, so why keep it up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.2.129.155 (talk) 20:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- DoubleBlue (Talk) 01:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Feeling encouraged by the dialog here, I removed some promotional statements from the article. I removed the note about the 'Grand Officer of the Cultural Merit' of Romania, since it's unsourced and is anyway not an award documented in Wikipedia. I wouldn't mind if his work was evaluated on the same basis as other classical musicians, but it would take some research to check how others are treated. Having 12 CDs released should count for something, and recognition within the relevant circle should be considered, though I don't know who else is in that circle. Determining that would take actual research. I agree that the status of Lyrichord as a label makes a difference to WP:MUSIC,
so that would take still more research.EdJohnston (talk) 01:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC).- See my note higher up that seems to establish that Lyrichord is 'one of the more important indie labels' according to the standards of WP:MUSIC. EdJohnston (talk) 22:34, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- The links you gave to other Lyrichord artists is hardly compelling. I had actually checked them myself when this first came up and found most of them to not really belong on wikipedia either. One actually has a notion that the profile was added by the subject's son, another is just a huge listing of songs and recordings without any real information, and all of them are without citations just like Mr. Radu's (I mean Dr. Sir Maestro Count Grand Duke Superstar the Great). What I think is funniest is how the person you are debating with and who first questioned the famous status of this person is a former student of Mr. Radu's and knows him personally. Meanwhile you apparently have no apparent connection to him and yet are defending his being kept on wikipedia vociferously. Not to accuse you of anything, but if you have any connection to the subject I think it bears admitting now for the sake of fairness- especially with so many of his former students running around here. I just don't understand why someone with no connection would have been keeping close watch over this page for a high school music teacher with a couple of Lyrichord CDs. Just sayin'. Vartan84 (talk) 00:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- For the record I have no connection to Mr. Radu. I didn't even know he was a recorded conductor before this AfD. The article first came to my attention a long time ago since it was being vandalized, and I reverted that. I don't have strong feelings whether this article is kept or not; I hoped that by researching this a little bit, I'd learn more about WP:MUSIC. EdJohnston (talk) 00:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- The links you gave to other Lyrichord artists is hardly compelling. I had actually checked them myself when this first came up and found most of them to not really belong on wikipedia either. One actually has a notion that the profile was added by the subject's son, another is just a huge listing of songs and recordings without any real information, and all of them are without citations just like Mr. Radu's (I mean Dr. Sir Maestro Count Grand Duke Superstar the Great). What I think is funniest is how the person you are debating with and who first questioned the famous status of this person is a former student of Mr. Radu's and knows him personally. Meanwhile you apparently have no apparent connection to him and yet are defending his being kept on wikipedia vociferously. Not to accuse you of anything, but if you have any connection to the subject I think it bears admitting now for the sake of fairness- especially with so many of his former students running around here. I just don't understand why someone with no connection would have been keeping close watch over this page for a high school music teacher with a couple of Lyrichord CDs. Just sayin'. Vartan84 (talk) 00:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- See my note higher up that seems to establish that Lyrichord is 'one of the more important indie labels' according to the standards of WP:MUSIC. EdJohnston (talk) 22:34, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keepand source better. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 02:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep per EdJohnston, subject appears to be mildly notable within his field. (jarbarf) (talk) 02:31, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
