Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Véronique, Princess of Montenegro

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Boris, Hereditary Prince of Montenegro. The question of Boris' notability may be determined at a separate AfD. While notability is not inherited, in this case it is intertwined. If his article should at some point be deleted, there will no longer be GFDL need to retain hers. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Véronique, Princess of Montenegro

Véronique, Princess of Montenegro (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Nonnotable. There has not been a "Prince of Montenegro for the past 509 years, according to Montenegro#History. This wife of a fictional heir to a nonexistent throne has no other notability of her own right either. Gene Nygaard (talk) 13:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Comment. Royalty are default notable per precedents about other AfDs, but I don't know anything about the history of the monarchy in Montenegro, so I'll not "vote".--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 14:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
    • That's the whole point. She is not royalty by any stretch of the imagination, nor is her husband. Gene Nygaard (talk) 14:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, both are modern pretenders to the throne whose ancestors were rulers from 1852 to 1918. Almost every other modern pretender (please don't quote wp:otherstuff at me) so there may be a precedent somewhere. Otherwise I feel that the family members are notable enough - Dumelow (talk) 15:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
    • In any case, it is still a non-existent throne, and they are not royalty. Gene Nygaard (talk) 15:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Although the pretender to a throne is notable, I see no need for a separate article about the spouse of a pretender to the throne, nor a sibling, nor a cousin. It's enough to include in the article Boris, Hereditary Prince of Montenegro that "His wife is Veronique." If she wants to "pretend" that she's Queen of the Balkans, that's her problem, not ours. Mandsford (talk) 16:15, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Weak delete Per above Carter | Talk to me 16:46, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge to her husband, Boris, Hereditary Prince of Montenegro (no, i'm not sexist, it seems like he's more of the "royal"). His notability will be an afd on another day. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 18:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge Per above. crassic\talk 19:45, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete/merge While Gene's comments are riddled with flaws and inaccuracy, this woman is not notable outside of the context of her husband. Charles 19:46, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. There appears to be nothing to write an article on about her in her own right. She should be covered under the article on her husband, and I believe she is. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:53, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect to Boris. There can hardly be inherent notability for the spouse of a pretender. This could be a search term, though. --Dhartung | Talk 23:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment If the History of Montenegro article says that there hasn't been a prince in 500 years, it's wrong. Nikola was prince as late as 1910. Nyttend (talk) 00:56, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I believe the nom is misinterpreting some wording that seems to have substandard English grammar. --Dhartung | Talk 08:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect as above. --Merovingian (T, C) 08:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. It's not clear to me that Veronique is in fact married to the hereditary prince of Montenegro. See Online Gotha. Note that the article does not say when the wedding took place. If Veronique isn't married to Boris, then she isn't a princess, and in that case the premise and title of this article are inaccurate. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 09:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  • See here. The proper title of the article is Véronique, Hereditary Princess of Montenegro. Charles 21:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
    • The Online Gotha entry has changed since my previous recommendation and now indicates the couple's marriage. Therefore, merge and redirect to her husband per other merge recommendations. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:34, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect per above. Kyriakos (talk) 07:35, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete as above. No assertion of independent notability. Eusebeus (talk) 00:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge to single article on the controversy. Keep as a redirect to the page. — BQZip01 — talk 06:18, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Other comments

According to his article, her husband's (or possibly not husband) grandfather Michael in 1929 "renounced his dynasty's claim to the defunct throne of Montenegro". There is really no reason to merge her with non-notable husband/paramour, do-nothing (oops, sorry, he did go to school and studied art, don't know if he ever graduated, but that's the only thing mentioned about him and so have lots of other people, that in itself isn't reason for keeping him) pretender to a nonexistent throne without a snowball's chance in hell of ever being restored. Gene Nygaard (talk) 16:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.