Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/United States Sports Academy

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus on United States Sports Academy, keep on Amos Alonzo Stagg Award, delete the rest. —Doug Bell talk 13:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] United States Sports Academy

United States Sports Academy (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Appears to be an insufficiently notable trade school, and someone (Lucidagtha (talk · contribs)) has been heavily spamming on its behalf by inserting references to "honorary degrees" that there was no evidence that the "recipients" were aware of or accepted the "honorary degrees," suggesting that it is, in fact, non-notable. Weak delete on the school itself, strong delete on its associated "awards" and other vanity/spam pages. Nlu (talk) 17:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

It may also be notable that every single current news reference to it (see [1]) either came from the school itself or is a reference to it giving an award or a degree. Absolutely no indication that this "school" provides any real education. --Nlu (talk) 18:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Another note: see the U.S. News college page for it ([2]). Note how much of the information is "not available." --Nlu (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

** Amos Alonzo Stagg Award (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (withdrawn by Nlu (talk) 16:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC))

It can be hard to find articles about the school itself, and not the awards given out, but I think that's partly because they give out so many awards. The fact that the awards seem to be taken seriously and the fact that they get a decent deal of press coverage from sponsoring the directors cup standings pushes them toward notability. US News probably does not have information on them because it is such a non-traditional program that they don't rate the school. The school claims a handful of notable alumni.
Weak Keep / Merge on the other awards articles, though if kept, most of them need massive cleanup and sources that do not originate from the school or the awardee.
Mishatx *разговор* 22:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Update -- I am withdrawing the nomination on Amos Alonzo Stagg Award. The nomination remains on all of the others. --Nlu (talk) 16:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
  • On balance, appears to be a real school with real accreditation. I'd like better references, but I suspect they can be found. Keep, and tag for someone to provide better references. No opinion on the others, as no time to review: perhaps some sort of merge would help ? WMMartin 17:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep the main article because it is notable (it gets occasional press coverage--see [6]) and verifiable--one source notes, for instance, that the president of East Timor received an honorary degree from the academy. I will incorporate some of these (and if possible other) sources into the article. As for the rest, keep by default due to the bundled nomination. If consensus exists here, I think most should be merged into the main USSA article unless sources can be found to establish WP:Notability for each. If no consensus for a merge develops here, I will propose a merge on the article pages and, if no objections arise within 5 or so days, will go forward and perform the merge. -- Black Falcon 18:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
    • As I noted, there's no evidence that the "recipients" of these honorary degrees actually accepted them. The fact that an institution may announce that it was conferring honorary degrees doesn't mean that the institution itself is notable. It should further be noted that the editor who appeared to be working on behalf of publicizing the institution misleadingly inserted these "honorary degree" references into the education background parts of articles with misleading edit summaries. For an example, see [7]. --Nlu (talk) 21:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
      • The information on conferrals is taken from here. You have a point about conferral vs. acceptance. I have incorporated into the article a source that confirms that at least one notable person has accepted--the President of East Timor. I think this should satisfy concerns that the institution's honorary degrees are ignored--I will try to find more sources for other conferrals. -- Black Falcon 21:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Further comment. It should be noted that one of the two alumni that the article claims who have articles here -- Greg McDermott and Mike Leach -- does not state in his biographical page that he graduated or went there. See [8] (McDermott). Leach's biography does mention the institution. [9]. --Nlu (talk) 21:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Although that is strange, I think the fact that Leach's biography does mention the school is more relevant toward establishing that it's an actual school. Perhaps the reason it's not mentioned in McDermott's page is because it is less detailed. If you have reason to suspect that McDermott is a USSA graduate, please remove any reference to him from the article. -- Black Falcon 21:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
      • The issue is not whether it exists -- it certainly does. The question is whether it is sufficiently notable. I am considering removing McDermott from the article, but that doesn't affect the issue. Existence is not the standard for notability. --Nlu (talk) 05:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

ADDITIONAL COMMENT

    • The United States Sports Academy is certainly a real university. It has been accredited by NASPE and NASM, and has bachelor's, master's, and doctorate degress in sport specific studies. In fact, it is the only sport specific institution in the nation.

We recently had a mention in U.S. News and World Reports (http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/8575.html) citing our Directors Cup.

Also, if you are checking the validity of our honorees, please look up the Abbot Shi Yongxin, the leader of Chinese Chan Bhuddism. His presence was noted at our Academy by both the Mobile Register and the New York Times.

We have also worked with Soprt for Peace to create positive international relations through sport.

Please let me know how I can help to verify any additional data that you may need.

Thanks very much,

Amanda Lucidagtha 21:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

      • Comment. If you are affiliated with the institution, it is a conflict of interest for you to be promoting the institution on Wikipedia. --Nlu (talk) 05:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
        • True, but there is really no promotion in the article and, furthermore, I see nothing wrong with offering to provide independent, reliable sources about which one is knowledgeable. WP:COI discourages editing of articles by those who may have a conflict of interest, but not contributing/assisting others to edit. Finally, WP:COI should be used within reasonable bounds. If an editor is contributing information that conforms to WP:RS, WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, and WP:V, I see no reason why they should not edit an article about themselves or an organization with which they are affiliated. -- Black Falcon 06:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
          • I disagree that Lucidagtha had no conflict of interest and was not promoting the institution. Take a look at her edit history -- particularly the edit summaries. --Nlu (talk) 08:22, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
            • Yes, she only created articles about awards and persons related to the USSA. That is not necessarily promotion. Other may create a series of articles about economics books--that doesn't mean they get royalties from the sale of these books. People create articles about topics with which they are familiar or interested. In any case, the content created is more important than the identity of its creator. -- Black Falcon 17:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

COMMENT I added data about the persons and awards that I was talking about that was true. I never said anything subjective, I merely mentioned that such awards, educational institutions, etc. existed. I feel that, in a list of honors and awards that an artist like Leroy Neiman has received, for example, it is important to update his entry to include his most recent, the 2007 Sport Artist of the year, for completeness and to keep his article current.

I did not add additional data because that would have been stepping outside of what I know.

I have added a quantity of information recently, this is true, because I only recently found out that there was no information on this subject on Wikipedia, and, as this institution has been in place for decades, I thought to remedy this gap.

As I said, please let me know if there is any way that I can help you to verify the data. I apologize for this inconvenience.

Thanks, Lucidagtha 14:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

    • Thank you for your offer. I think the concern raised by User:Nlu is the notability of the institution and the awards. I think that of the institution has been sufficiently established (Nlu, please correct me here if you disagree), but that of the awards is still up for grabs. The primary criterion for notability is being "the subject of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself." Do you perhaps know of sources (independent of the USSA) that note the awards included in this AfD? Otherwise, I think most qualify for deletion or merging. Thank you, Black Falcon 17:37, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
  • keep for the institution. The others should be relisted in homogenous groups, unless they are merged instead. Trying to delete an article for a real institution and all of the related articles at the same time indicates an overhasty procedure. I wouldn't mind considering all the awards together--I would probably say to delete them all. But the other miscellaneous articles should be proposed for deletion one at a time. Trying to do it this way risks unfairness. DGG 04:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

COMMENT

THE AWARDS I do not think that they should be deleted outright, as they are historically of importance, as they have been given to Olympic heroes, political leaders, etc. Also, they are mentioned in places outside of the institution, such as:

http://www.sanantoniosports.org/sidelines/index.html http://uhcougars.cstv.com/school-bio/hou-school-bio-maggard.html http://www.mccarthysports.com/cbi_staff.html http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/8575.html http://www.jimthorpeassoc.org/Awards/JTAPastWinners/RogersCarlos.html http://www.sportssafety.org/founder/ http://www.usatriathlon.org/upload/pdfs/history_miscellaneous_awards.pdf http://www.mackieshilstone.com/media/nr10.html http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf?/health/bio.html http://www.wnba.com/mystics/news/SPORTS_EXECUTIVE_JOHNSON_EARNS-209196-230.html (There are many, many others, these are just examples. Note also that USATODAY.com and MSN.com have a link for our athlete of the year awards and for the Director's Cup. ) http://www.pgatour.com/story/9841871/

IN ADDITION, THE PEOPLE Thomas P. Rosandich, Oppie Otterstad, and Christobal Gabbaron should not be deleted because they are national/international leaders in the sport and art community. I've also included a list of links related to them: http://www.carriagehousecenter.org/html/background.html http://www.gabarron.com/ http://www.fundacioncasapintada.com/ http://www.limelightagency.com/Opie_Otterstad/Press_eng/chicago_sun_times.html http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/opies_art/ http://www.opieart.com/main.html http://www.usolympicteam.com/teamusanet/49499.htm http://www.specialolympics.org/Special+Olympics+Public+Website/English/Press_Room/Global_News_Archive/2004+Global+News+Archive/Sargent+Shriver+Award.htm http://www.pgatour.com/story/9841871/

I think that this is about everything/one who was in question. Please let me know who/what else I should present information on, and I will be happy to provide it. Also, if this data is not complete or is not what you are looking for, please advise.

Again, thanks for helping me to get this right.

Amanda Lucidagtha 14:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.