Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/UL Games Society

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was no consensus. Mackensen (talk) 17:38, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] UL Games Society

A long history of the role-playing society at the University of Limerick, unencyclopedic, delete --nixie 15:34, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Vanity. -- Mwanner 16:18, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
• It's a work in progress and also describes the societies current activities, keep --User:DaxisMarr 16:41, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Not sure how to use this...we're constantly refining this article & we believe it will be of interest to many people. The society's fame is growing in this area and further afield and a wikipedia article will be useful for us, our members and visitors to our university from other countries. Plus the handful of us who know how to use wiki are cleaning it up whenever we get time. keep --Trumad 16:57, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• keep. Were sorting it out, alot of people are adding to it and not all of them know the rules. Thats gonna change. --Kaiser Sma 16:48, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• keep. I am the aforementioned Aaron Smart (the current president of the society). The society is of historical importance to UL and the Students' Union as it is one of the longest-running societies still in existance - many never last longer than a couple of years. And 1989 may not seem that long to some, but the university has only existed since 1972.

Though I think some of the writers have misunderstood the concept of the Wikipedia, and this article is undermining the integrity of the encyclopedia. It shouldn't be deleted, but needs serious clean-up, and I will give warnings to the current authors to read the appropriate rules for entries.--Zilog Jones 17:03, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete. Non-encyclopedic and the contents is of atrocious quality. Pavel Vozenilek 17:20, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Note that neither of these is grounds for speedy deletion. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:19, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Also note that all the above remarks were made before heavy re-writing of the article; the language previously used in the article was most certainly not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. --Zilog Jones 09:53, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Finally, note that Pavel said the "contents is of atrocious quality" - he should have used "are of atrocious quality" for the plural of content. I'm not quite sure in what position he is to judge the quality of our English.
• Comment: Please review the article again - it has been heavily revised. If this is still not up to standards I can edit it some more. But regardless, GSoc is a society officially recognised by the UL Students' Union, just like the University of Limerick Debating Union, who also have a Wikipedia entry. Clubs and societies are an important aspect of college life over here, in a similar way to fraternities in colleges in the US --Zilog Jones 20:06, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and move to University of Limerick Games Society. Notable student society at a notable university. Aticle has potential for organic growth.Klonimus 20:31, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect. It's not the page is badly written--in fact, it's quite well done. However, we generally don't look for articles on topics this minor or specific (no insult intended, but it is rather fine-grained). The problem with this criteria is that it varies from user to user, and we've never been able to agree on a definition that we could put on paper. So it's kind of confusing. I think the best thing to do would be to create a section in the college's article entitled "Student Activities" or something of that nature, and expand that. Best wishes, Meelar (talk) 20:40, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Apart from personal bias (can anyone really explain why a bunch of Irish students going 'Arr, I'm a goblin' is more notable than a business that employs 150 people, or a scientist publishing important new research and lecturing to over 150 students is? Really? I mean, seriously, is the chair of this society more important to the university than a professor of physics? Did anyone join the university thinking 'the course is crap, but they have a good roleplaying society?'). I'm of the opinion that this is vanity, and an over inflated sense of ones importance in the scheme of things. I was a chair of a society at University (and one that had more active members than this one) and while it's a good way to pass the evening and all that, I wouldn't think of creating an article for it. This deserves at best one line in a section on societies at the University. Want to know more? Look at the University webpage. Average Earthman 20:44, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Merge (and condense) as per Meelar. People studying at UL or visiting UL have more specific resources they can use to find out about student societies. FreplySpang (talk) 20:53, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Passes the "U.S. villages" notability threshold (or, as another editor has it, the Pokemon test). And that has nothing to do with my own roots in Ballyneety. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:19, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Good points Meelar and FreplySpang. If there was more imformation on the UL Students' Union and other student activities in UL, the article may seem more significant though. I might add some more to the UL page on this, but I couldn't say much.

There's still the fact that the Debating Union also have an article and no one has complained about that as of yet, and I'm sure many other clubs and societies from other colleges also have entries (Trinity College Dublin do, but they are kinda of more importance than ours, being several centuries old and all).

Maybe the person who started this article was being a bit too "bold", but I think it would be good for historical posterity. Imformation on clubs & soc's here from before the Students' Union building was built around 1998, is pretty much non-existant, and for all I know the society will be long forgotten in a few years after I leave.

And Average Earthman, who ever said this was more important than other aspects of UL? It's not my fault that few want to write articles on the academic aspects of the univesity, but I'm sure in time there will be more --Zilog Jones 21:55, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• • Not only do few want to write articles on academics, most of them would get deleted on the grounds of 'average professor'.Average Earthman 12:48, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• condense and merge to university of limerick. There are currently approximately 120 members of the society says "notable as part of UL, not notable on it's own" to me. BigFatDave 22:19, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• comment: Yes, but that's only the numbers for this year, and membership only lasts one year. If you add up all the members over the years, it must be somewhere around 500-800, if not more. --Zilog Jones 22:25, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• comment: What the article still needs, and would work towards it's defense, is the information about some of it's other national events such as TRICON 2001. With regards to the impression of role playing, there are already a ton of articles on the subject. It's not necisarily more important than a business that 'employs' 150 people, but we often have had more than 200 members sign up in a year. A perfect encyclopedia would contain information on such things. It's not intended to be vain or over emphisised, there's just more information available on it then alot of things of similar importance. We do have a budget in the thousands and vanity pages according to the tutorial pages are personal as opposed to an orginisation.--Kaiser Sma 23:00, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• comment: In further reference to average earthman's comment, alot of people (right or wrong) have put a considerable amount of effort into this society, many people do join UL in part for it's clubs and societies. I know many people who have spent considerably more time and effort into making them work then their respective studies. This was not made as information for potential students, it was made because we believed it deserved a permenant reference. Most of the people involved in it's construction are graduates as well.--Kaiser Sma 23:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment Someone putting effort into something does not make it notable, and I've been both treasurer and chairman of a student society with more members than this one claims so I'm not totally clueless on how they work. Average Earthman 17:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete not notable, not encyclopedic. Cleduc 02:06, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment, this society has its own website (where they are boasting about being in wikipedia), so this information in available to interested parties. Wikipedia is not the sum of all mundane information, it should be an encyclopedia. There a a role-playing society, and anime society and infinite religious and sporting groups at every university, some of these may be valid long-running clubs that have hade members of note and are suitable for an encyclopedia, but most aren't, you're looking at one of the unencyclopedic ones here. Just because an effort has been made to make it look good does not make it a worthy addition. Next thing you know we'll have set a precendent for allowing every Lions and Rotary club and every scout troupe a page.--nixie 02:14, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Does not look notable to me. Indrian 04:13, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Too young and non-notable society. Mention it in the article on the university, perhaps. / Uppland 05:22, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, truly non-notable. Only affects (approximately) 120 people, it admits that there is little or no information about it before 2000. "The society was allegedly founded in 1987." Also, authors making comments please restrict youself to one vote. --bainer 05:57, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and Condense. I authored part of this page and had come here to post a 'keep' message but having read all points and examining other society entries I feel it would be more appropriate for a shortened version of our entry to be posted on the University of Limerick entry. --The Cardinal 11:37, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Bainer, I don't see anyone here making multiple votes. I removed that comment on our website - I do not think it was appropriate. I thought this whole thing wasn't too appropriate for the Wikipedia, but if this does get deleted I also propose other insignificant student clubs and societies be deleted too. --Zilog Jones 13:51, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hear! Hear! If you can find them, by all means add them to VfD. -- Mwanner 14:04, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Keep but condense greatly - a stub at best. Djegan 18:07, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Why not? It's of use to people who might want to find out more about the society. Isn't wikipedia a gathering of imformation?--Richy 20:25, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• comment: Bainer, you're wrong on two counts (as far as I can tell). You say the society only affects 120 people. We won the best improved society of the year, as voted by all the other clubs and societies in the university. We have 120 members at the minute, as Zilog Jones said - but 600-800 past members and goodness knows how many in the future. We're involved with other universities in paintball competitions, wargames and some sci-fi interests. (so not just role-playing). You also said people were voting twice, which I would have picked up on straightaway had it been there.

The person who started the article (me) did indeed not realise what he had started. I wanted an encyclopedic account of my favourite society, and one which I believe affects enough people to warrant a wiki article. If I looked it up (and found there wasn't a page there) how many other people would try? Another point of information - societies are asked by the university staff to set up stands during open days. This is to "show off" the clubs and societies to prospective students. Many students frequently do choose one university over another because of a better list of societies, if they can do their course at either. Trumad 21:21, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Clearly "affects" more people than just its members, it's of possible interest to other members of the Irish gaming community, and perhaps to the UL "societies crowd" in general. However, I'd certainly rename, as per Klonimus, and trim excess detail, as per several contributers. Alai 02:37, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Actually, I withdraw my last statement. What defines a club or society as "significant" is too vague and discretionary, and could even be verging on discriminatory in some cases. It's not exactly hurting or degrading the Wikipedia by having such entries. Though as others have said, we may decimate some sections of it - as it stands now, it's already bigger than the actual UL article! --Zilog Jones 09:22, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, every university has a game society. Radiant_* 13:51, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: That's not necessarily true, and I don't see any reason not to mention these other societies if they have anything to write about. That's a rather pointless remark. You do know you don't have to read it if it doesn't interest you! --Zilog Jones 14:36, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Every University having a game society is no reason to delete the article. Trumad 21:10, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep: Doubt it needs to be as big as it is though. Kiand 18:05, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Societies were one of the main reasons I entered my university (for the great friends and such that I have made) and to be able to see GSoc and read its history is very important to me. Sergeant Horse 20:26, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• comment: In response to the many calls for shortening of the article, we can merge the four eras (or generations) of gsoc history into one medium sized paragraph. Anything to keep the article here. We all believe it is of benefit to many people, as has been shown above. Trumad 21:12, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Student organizations are non-notable in all but a very few exceptional cases. Isomorphic 03:43, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment - Surely it's time you made some sort of decision on this and how harmful it's being to wikipedia? hmm? Trumad 06:38, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Strong Keep, But cutbacks acceptable As it stands this page take up less space than "List of countries that only border one other country", and I found it far more informative to boot. Indeed, i believe more people would have more interest in this article that "Exceller" the useless racehorse for example, which takes up enough space for this article 3 times over

• comment okay, it's well over a week now. have you guys made a decision yet? if it's going to be kept we'll do some work on it. If you're gonna delete it we'll not bother. Just please tell us so that we can make this article even better. If you don't remove the notice or delete the entry within (another) 5 days we'll remove the deletion notice ourselves. Thankyou. Trumad 22:11, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Er, I don't think you should do that!! An admin has to give a verdict first, AFAIK. --Zilog Jones 21:09, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: If they keep us in suspense for this long and then delete it I'll be very annoyed indeed. There are enough people here saying "keep" to warrant keeping the article on wikipedia, and not enough "deleters" to care enough to actually delete it after 5 days. Therefore, vis a vis, they have no right to delete it. Trumad 15:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't think you understand. An admin has to make the decision. Read the rules! --Zilog Jones 15:33, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.