Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tove Jensen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. - Mailer Diablo 10:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tove Jensen

Tove Jensen (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

I'm nominating this under the same reasons a similar porn actress's article (Anna Marek) was deleted last month, i.e. no reliable source of information exists, except an "official page" which points users to where they can buy her movies.. Static Universe 00:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - I suggest you find a better reason to nominate this article for deletion; official websites for actors and actresses of any variety are some of the most reliable sources for verfiable information. Currently the article passes both WP:RS and WP:V with flying colors. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 00:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Wrong. The official sites are the least reliable sources for this variety of actress. The biographies that pornographers publish are almost always complete fiction, made up by the people who sell the magazines, videos, DVDs, and so forth, to accompany the pictures/films. For example: The same simple set of pictures of the same person could be "Erica, a 19-year-old co-ed from Ohio" and "Ustenia, 18, Czech Republic" in two different publications, according to the target market. This is because the people photographed usually do not want their true biographical information published, because of the nature of the industry that they are in. They are, by deliberate choice, unverifiable. The only source of biographical information that this article cites is from a web site that is advertising DVDs. We have no way of knowing that this web site is not doing just the same as what other such pornographers do: making up biographies from whole cloth.

    For a particularly amusing example of how unreliable the purported biographies in these advertisements are, consider this advertisement, equally as (un)reliable as the web site that the article cites (since it is simply yet another "official" advertisement), where the subject of this article is stated to be male. There is no fact checking going on here, and this example alone should convince you that truth and accuracy is not the intent of these web pages. The pornography industry not only has no reputation for fact checking and accuracy, it has entirely the opposite reputation for making false biographies up. These are not reliable sources. They are advertisements and most likely complete fiction. Uncle G 03:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete - She fails WP:PORN and WP:BIO. As mentioned in the Anna Marek AfD, the problem with adult actors and actresses for whom no major media coverage has been generated is that it is impossible to find neutral, reliable sources of information. This article is destined to remain an unsourced stub. Also, the "official website" that is linked from the article is NOT official; it appears to be a fan site. - Jhinman 00:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Despite having 'official website' or not it fails WP:BIO] in that there is no indepedant media coverage etc. that can assert notibility.--155.144.251.120 02:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - Now that is a good reason for deletion. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 09:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, as Uncle G noted, WP:LIVING is quite strict about the need for reliable and independent sources when the subject is presumed alive. --Dhartung | Talk 05:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Quite notable. Over 550 google hits for "tiny tove" indicate that she is somewhat popular, at least. This nickname is also used in some circles as a generic description for pornography featuring a woman who looks a lot younger than she is. She's Climax Magazines' best-selling model, according to the claim on their home page. JulesH 00:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • None of which addresses the charge that there are no reliable sources of biographical information for this person, or indeed supports the assertion that this person is notable. Whether she is popular or not is irrelevant. Notability is not fame nor importance. Supporting the assertion that this person is notable requires demonstrating, by citing sources, that she satisfies our Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies. You've cited no sources whatsoever. And counting Google hits is not research. Research involves actually reading the pages that the search turns up, looking for sources. You won't find anything other than advertisments (indeed mostly the same advertisment, submitted to reams of self-submission web sites and discussion fora) when you do. Uncle G 03:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Climax Magazines looks more like a reseller than directly related to Color Climax, who originally produced the Tove Jensen films. Color Climax is based in Denmark and the magazine site is in Germany. Static Universe 07:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

In reply to Uncle G's point about biographical notability criteria. The relevant one is this:

Notable actors [...] who have appeared in well-known films [...]. Notability can be determined by:

[...]

• A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following

[...]

• Name recognition

I would argue that the films listed are well-known, at least within their genre (in fact, I understand they are considered by some to be genre-defining). There does appear to be an active fan base, and Jensen is described in numerous sites as a cult figure (although none, unfortunately, are reliable sources). Name recognition is the argument I was building upon with the large number of hits mentioned above. A significant proportion of those hits are not advertising. Unfortunately, none of the non-advertising sources appear to be reliable, so this may be destined to failure anyway, but I am sure that *somewhere* sources exist. Where did the information we have here come from anyway? JulesH 15:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Well known within her genre, one of the most notable of teen pornstars, meets WP:PORN BIO as described above. RFerreira 23:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep well known in the "teen porn" genre, according to the FBI a large portion of those arrested for child pornography have images of Tove Jensen in their collections due to her pre-pubescent appearance. Was huge in the 1970s and her magazines and movies are still sold today. Color Climax Corporation claims her to be their #1 selling female actress.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 23:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, well known, atleast here in Northern Europe. I think the sources are okay, but if needed it can't be too hard to find something better. bbx 23:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.