Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timbuk2

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Timbuk2

Timbuk2 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable company with no claims of notability. Corvus cornix_talk 05:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Add its non-notable founder - Rob Honeycutt Corvus cornix_talk 05:54, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Extremely well-known product line, probably the best-known messenger bag. 2 million ghits, although many are sales. Many product reviews online, e.g. CNET. SF Chronicle article demonstrates some notability -- how many companies get write-ups just for changing manufacturing locations? More refs would be nice. bikeable (talk) 06:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Please address the Ron Honeycutt article as well. Corvus cornix_talk 06:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    • yes, we edit-conflicted over that. Addendum: merge or simply redirect founder article; non-notable except for Timbuk2. bikeable (talk) 06:04, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Merge with Rob Honeycutt (or vise versa). Keep, but only if Rob Honeycutt is merged into it. One article is more then enough. --Brewcrewer 06:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, very notable per Bikeable. If merge, merging Rob Honeycutt into Timbuk2 is preferable. hateless 08:07, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Timbuk2 as a notable and popular product. Rob Honeycutt seems very thinly notable as he has founded a second company after selling this one, but obviously anyone can merge. --Dhartung | Talk 08:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep both as notable. --evrik ^(talk) 14:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete the Honeycutt article and include the information in the Timbuk2 article. I don't see widespread notability for Mr. Honeycutt aside from the product and I'm not sure that's enough to keep the article by intself.. Some better refs might help... - Philippe | Talk 15:04, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Timbuk2 for failure to demonstrate that it meets our generally accepted inclusion criteria for companies. The links in the article are, respectively, a press release, a minor article in the local paper, a slightly lengthier article but still in the company's local paper, and the company's own website. The CNet link here is a mere product review. None of those yet demonstrate that this company is significantly more notable than the dry-cleaner down the street. Straight google hits are, as noted above, not a reliable measure in this case because they are so skewed by the retail operations. A google news search is more useful - and in this case, shows only 7 returns, none of which mass muster.
  Delete Rob Honeycutt for failure to demonstrate that he meets our generally accepted inclusion criteria for businesspeople. Again, none of the links provided so far demonstrate notability. Rossami (talk) 23:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• This is Rob Honeycutt.... Would it help or be allowable for me to personally include descriptions of my contributions to lean manufacturing, mass customization and/or domestic manufacturing in the sewn goods industry? There's a lot of material there that I think has been overlooked IMHO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robhon (talk • contribs)
  • In general, that would be a bad idea. Editing your own biography is an inherent conflict of interest and almost always ends in bad feelings both from the subject and the other editors involved in the discussion. If you are famous enough to be covered in an encyclopedia article, it's best to let others write the page.
    However, if you're asking if you can provide evidence here, you may certainly do that. Please provide any links or references to reliable, independent sources that document achievements or awards that would meet the project's inclusion criteria. (Note that press releases and other coverage that traces back to the subject is never considered independent.) Thanks. Rossami (talk) 00:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
• I realize I am a biased party in this discussion but it happens to be a fact that Timbuk2, running the very same production cells that I designed and set up, is the only company in the world successfully doing fully implemented adaptive customization (per Joe Pine) for sewn goods. Nike and Rebok now do customization on shoes but have not been nearly as successful and treat it as a marketing tool. I'm not quite sure how to document this but I would think that at least as notable as a huge number of articles that reside on Wikipedia. Even Levi's had a customization program that eventually failed. As far as I know I'm the only person to pull this off successfully with sewn goods. Timbuk2 is now over $15M in revs and 60% of their sales, according to the current CEO, Perry Klebahn, still come from the original three panel messenger bag I designed.--Robhon (talk) 01:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.