Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thomas M. Jacobs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep--JForget 01:08, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas M. Jacobs

Thomas M. Jacobs (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Contested PROD. This person competed in one olympic games and came nowhere. There are no independent sources, only the placing tables for the event. Those are sources for the event, not the individual. Of the five Google hits for Thomas M. Jacobs +skier, there are only Wikipedia, mirrors and lists. No independent sources cited, and I can't find any. Cruftbane 06:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep I'm not sure what 'anc dame nowhere' means but this man was an Olympian and therefore he competed at the highest level of his sport, so he clearly passes the notability threshold. Events which happened before his holiness Al Gore invented the Internet still happened. Nick mallory 08:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment "and came nowhere" (or maybe he did just as poorly in a spelling bee). Clarityfiend 08:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Typo, yes. Cruftbane 11:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep This was not a contested PROD, it was a contested speedy deletion which was going way over the top. Olympic qualification, as the highest level of competition in amateur sport, does it for me as far as notability. I also strongly disagree that an arbitrary assessment of performance should be applied to Olympic athletes, to exclude those who "dame nowhere". Even so, Google and the internet should not be the be-all-and-end-all of "reliable sources", particularly for people and sporting events earlier than 1990. --Canley 08:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Those who use Google searches of a precise nature to determine notability should think a bit more laterally before declaring a topic non-notable. A search for "Tom Jacobs" reveals numerous reliable references about this person: The New York Times, another NYT reference, Ski Racing: The Journal of Snowsport Competition, and there's dozens more. --Canley 08:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
• Strong delete I feel competing in the olympics doesn't assert WP:N. Especially when placing 66th. Carter | Talk to me 09:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

That's your opinion, but Wikipedia holds people notable if they competed at the highest level of their sport and, by definition, the Olympics counts as that. 124.183.76.5 10:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

No, that is a misreading of the notability guideline. The policies which apply here are WP:V, WP:RS and WP:NOT a directory. The notability guideline is correct in saying that if someone competed in the Olympics they will probably have received sufficient non-trivial independent coverage that we cvan have an article, but if they have not received that coverage, then we can't have an article, even if they placed a lot higher than 66th. Cruftbane 11:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Will the sources mentioned above do? There are no less than seven sources given in the article now, are you going to withdraw this nomination? 124.183.76.5 12:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep has verifiable and independent sources. I'm no expert at sports but I think that if you were chosen to represent your country at the Olympics, you must be skillful enough and known enough in your field of expertise. --Lenticel ^(talk) 09:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Verifiable and independent sources? Great. They aren't in the article. Perhaps you could add them. Cruftbane 11:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

There are sources listed here in the Afd before I voted. Don't you think you're getting a little bit too passionate?--Lenticel ^(talk) 21:47, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Well isn't this interesting. The creator has been canvassing for support, but has not actually taken the trouble to expand the article beyond a stub that positively asserts non-notability. Have any of the above editors, who evidently know much more about the subject than the article says, considered expanding the article? Because it really is pretty pointless citing loads of really interesting stuff in an AfD and then not including it in the article. All that will happen is it will get tagged again and again until somebody makes itr more than a directory entry on a losing athlete. And losing by a wide margin at that. Cruftbane 11:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• The creator asked for my help in gathering sources (and not !vote-stacking) before you nominated the article for deletion, so accusations of canvassing are pretty unfair. For your information, I'm working on rewriting the article at the moment (offline), so haven't updated the article within minutes of locating a few sources. --Canley 11:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep, no question that competing in the Olympics passes WP:BIO, so this was a waste of time. Please be aware of the notability guidelines, and if you don't like them, start a discussion on the guideline page instead. --Dhartung | Talk 16:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Clearly meets notability guidelines and is verifiable. Dsmdgold 17:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep This meets the notability guidelines for WP:BIO under athletes and the highest level of international competition which is the Winter Olympics. Chris 19:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Article is sourced and subject clearly meets notability guidlines. Edward321 01:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - representing his country at the Olympic Games is certainly good enough to pass WP:BIO in my book. Consider a rename to "Thomas Jacobs" without the middle initial. - fchd 06:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

• Tom Jacobs may be better to move to, as all the new references refer to him in that way. --Canley 06:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - Crutbane, it was a contested very inappropriate Speedy Deletion of yours, not a PROD. Passes WP:BIO as an Olympic athlete. --Oakshade 06:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Notability easily established now especially with the sources added to the article and would say that competing at the Olympic Games would pass WP:BIO anyway and is definitly not a speedy candidate. Davewild 07:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Olympians are notable. --Eastmain 17:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. Further references to any Olympian from the pre-Internet area can probably be found in contemporary newspapers and magazines, some of which may be available on microfilm at your local library. --Eastmain 17:50, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Seems notable to me. --Rehcsif 19:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Olympic sports participation means that he was at the top of the class for the country he represented. Coming in 21 puts him in the top 21 in that event in the world. Article can do with a rewrite. jonathon 20:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.