Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The new york sociologist

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete, crystal ball journalcruft? That's a new one.. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 14:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The new york sociologist

The New York Sociologist (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)
The new york sociologist (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable journal published by a single faculty of a university. Google turns up only 27 hits, and none of the relevant hits are independent of the journal itself. [1] Flyingtoaster1337 14:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Delete It now becomes clear that there is edit warring about two rather young online journals with the same or very similar names both of which do not seem to be notable yet. Tikiwont 15:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge content relating to the university journal to the university's main article. Walton monarchist89 15:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete for now - this online journal appears to have just started and the site really doesn't have much content yet. May be worth an article later. Citicat 17:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • The journal published by the New York State Sociological Association is preexisting with peer reviewed content submitted at their October 2005 annual meeting. The Cortland College journal of the same name is planned for either June of 2007 or January of 2008 NBeat 15:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)NBeat
  • This discussion has been added as a test case to the proposed guideline Wikipedia:Notability (science). ~ trialsanderrors 20:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Well the Cortland journal makes it clear it's crystal ballism: "with the stated goal of publishing the highest quality scholarship across the full range of the social sciences. Submissions from faculty, researchers, and advanced graduate students exploring the problems of modern social life are welcomed." What about the other one? ~ trialsanderrors 20:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment To faciliate further discussion, I've now created a (maybe temporary) disambiguation page under The New York Sociologist which lists this article here as TNYS article (which was nominated for deletion) and has an entry for a NYSSA article, should someone see the need to create it. Tikiwont 20:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Even if kept, I doubt we need separate articles for the two. ~ trialsanderrors 20:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Nevermind, Delete Looking at the edit history, the other one was launched in December 2006. Academic journals need to establish notability the old-fashioned way, by being noticed. No evidence that any of the two did. ~ trialsanderrors 20:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I perfectly agree (and voted argued already as much); I just created the page because I let myself get dragged into their debate, and also to create something neutral on the page which actually woudl be the right title for both. Tikiwont 20:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC) (Corrected my wording Tikiwont 08:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC))
  • Oh well, I see you're already made up your minds. Perhaps later. tnys
If you'd like to put forward an argument for keeping the article based on wikipedia policy, please do so. This is not a vote.-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 22:59, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Sure, I can certainly understand why we appear to lack notableness (the journal is new and lacks content, so, yeah, it is not notable in that regard) but when sociologists see what is developing and examine the editorial advisory board it is more than notable; it is a real powerhouse; it's not that we just have some famous people on board (I know that fame is not notability around here) but tnys.org represents a major convergence of established and emerging intellectuals that rivals anything of its kind. tnys.org is administrated out of a single campus but that's just the administrative unit.
Again, I totally understand why we look like candidates for deletion and, if that's the decision, so be it. Just keep in mind that when a sociologist examines tnys.org it's pretty darned impressive. Thanks. tnys
  • TNYS has the makings of what could very well evolve into a respectable journal. And when that happens, Wikipedia should list it. I also see no reason why it can’t be listed now as an organization created with the purpose of creating a journal. My only point is that Wikipedia needs to differentiate between The New York Sociologist published by the New York Sociological Association and TNYS published by Cortland State College. I think Tikiwont’s disambiguation page does just that and I appreciate the effort. I’ll create copy for the NYSSA page. As to how NYSSA and Cortland work out the same title problem, that is not Wikipedia’s concern, so long as we find a way to make the existence of the two efforts clear. The fact still stands that NYSSA is a statewide organization of sociologists that counts among its members, Cortland State College sociology faculty, NYSSA has been holding conferences for 53 years, NYSSA has been developing a journal since 2005 when calls for papers went out, and NYSSA published a peer reviewed journal in 2006. That journal is online. There is no reason to delete an entry referencing it. I suggest two pages: one with “NYSSA” in parenthesis and one with “SUNY Cortland” in parenthesis if the consensus is to not delete that listing. NBeat 02:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)NBeat
Your point is understandable, but unfortunately wikipedia has explicit policy that says you can't have an article about something that is not notable (or in existance) but might become notable (or exist) in the future.-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 03:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
    • So what about the NYSSA? Is that a notable organization? If so maybe starting there with a mention of the journal would make more sense. ~ trialsanderrors 06:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete both. The The new york sociologist / TNYS (Cortland State College) journal really does have a very impressive advisory board, but has not yet achieved enough notability in its own right. Not surprising since it hasn't launched yet. The The New York Sociologist (NYSSA) journal article is not dissimilar, having only just launched. That there is no New York State Sociological Association article speaks volumes. -- zzuuzz(talk) 21:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Actually there was, but the author created the page with the NYSSA abbreviation in the title. It's now at the correct page. I take the organization's 50-year history as some sort of notability assertion, but other than that the organisation is also borderline notable. AfD'ing it is left as an exercise to anyone interested. Kimchi.sg 00:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
  • weak delete but the key issue for me, is that the journal is not yet published, and acccording to its web site, does not have the first issue scheduled until 2008 (as is said in the above discussion) I don't think we have any basis just yet for entering it. From what I've seen here, we wouldn't include any media that far in advance of publication, with no idea yet of what is to be actually included. It's good that you are starting to establish its web presence, but even librarians do not usually think seriously about a journal until it has at least a table of contents for the first issue. Come back then--as I think everyone above has said. DGG 04:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.