Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Mutants (San Francisco)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. W.marsh 00:45, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Mutants (San Francisco)

An articlw which has been deleted on numerous occasions, and still does not show the band meets WP:MUSIC. It might be notable, just written terribly, but the fact that it didn't have an article in the past (remember 99.9% of notable bands already do) leaves me as a skeptic. Harro5 04:47, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Weak keep Although I've argued here largely that articles that are horribly deficient or otherwise unsalvagable should be deleted and, if on subjects that merit articles, added to WP:RA, this article doesn't seem so poorly written as to be altogether without hope. On the subject of notability, a Google search takes one to the the band's site, where one learns that they have recently played with three bands for whom articles exist (most prominently, Dead Kennedys). Other returns from the search lead me to think that they are notable, although surely the article does not establish notability at this time. Thus, I think perhaps the best course of action is to tag for sourcing and cleanup, although I would certainly revisit a "delete" vote in the future were the article not improved (such lack of improvement would, I think, demonstrate non-notability). If the same user has recreated the article in the same fashion as that which previously has been deleted, I would think it would be appropriate to suggest to the user on his/her user page that such recreations are disfavored where the resulting articles don't represent improvements over articles that have already failed to survive AfD. Joe 05:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• Very weak keep per Joe. Note that this has been speedily deleted twice already as nn-band. Sandstein 05:44, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep per Joe --TBC^{??? ??? ???} 06:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete repost, Not yet notable, Joe's efforts are valiant, but Crystal-Ballish. - the.crazy.russian (T) (C) (E) 14:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
• delete Sorry, they still fail WP:MUSIC. Just not yet notable. Nigelthefish 14:35, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I think the article makes a decent case for minimal notability, and the "99.9% of notable bands already have articles" is spuriously self-proving -- it justifies rejecting any band. And it's pretty clearly wrong -- there was a writeup on lesser-known Grammy nominees in the NYTimes recently, and several of them didn't have articles, even though a Grammy nomination clearly establishes notability in the field. Monicasdude 14:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, it'll be hard to find relevant WP:MUSIC references for a band 20 years old, but they did get a feature in Bay Area Music, and that seals it enough for me. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 01:30, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, There are many books that have articles about the Mutants and many publications from Re/Search.Search & Destroy Volume I;Issues 1-6; Search & Destroy Volume II Issues 7-11; PUNK '77: an Inside Look at the San Francisco Rock 'N' Roll Scene, 1977 X-capees: James Stark, A San Francisco punk photo documentary,X-Capees Press; 2nd rev. ed edition (1980). The September 1979 New York Rocker proclaimed "The Mutants are the most polular band in San Francisco." They are listed in List of musicians in the first wave of punk musicRetrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_first_wave_of_punk_music" and other wikipedia articles about San Francisco Punk Rock. They headlined at CBGBs in New York, considered a major punk rock venue. They have put out at least two records on 415 Records and are included on compilations with many bands that do have pages on wikipedia. Actually, many bands that are on wikipedia opened for the Mutants when the Mutants were the headline band (i.e. The Dead Kennedys). A feature length documentary is about to be released about the Mutants, produced by Dirk Dirksen ( of Mabuhay_Gardens fame). A photograph of the Mutants is currently on the cover of Punk Globe magazine: http://punkglobe.com/. And was also on the cover of Damage Magazine: http://www.sfmutants.com/damagecover.html. The Mutants were featured in films: Rick Schmidt's Emerald Cities (90 min., Color, © 1983), Faster, Louder, Shorter directed by Mindaugis Bagdon and in numerous videos by Target Video (Joe Rees). They have been interviewed throughout the nation on radio and television shows including the Uncle Floyd Floyd Vivino Show in New Jersey.
• Keep Peter G Werner 09:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC) Keep but Move to The Mutants (band) Peter G Werner 20:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC) Keep. I was involved in the San Francisco punk scene in the early 1980s and remember The Mutants as a notable band, within a milieu that's now considered historically important. The statement by Delete voters that the band is "not yet important" is in error - the band is historically important, though less well-known today. The article itself needs work. -- I do feel, however, that unless there's another notable band in another city called "The Mutants" that the name of this article should be "The Mutants (band)" rather than "The Mutants (San Francisco)". Brazilain band Os Mutantes wouldn't count in this regard, as they never used an English translation of their name.

I checked up on other bands using the name The Mutants. It turns out that there is a Detroit band called The Mutants, active in the same era as the SF Mutants. The Detroit Mutants have an album and a website and are somewhat notable. Anyway, to avoid confusion, the title "The Mutants (San Francisco)" should be kept. Some sort of disambiguation should be written into the beginning of the article stating that The Mutants from San Francisco are different from The Mutants from Detroit. -- Peter G Werner 04:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

• Keep WP:MUSIC should imho be aimed at vanity articles by no-name bedroom DJs and unsigned bands, not bands who achieved historical importance in genres of old. In such cases record sales don't matter one jot. --kingboyk 13:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. The Mutuants were one of the most important punk rock bands of the late 70s and early 80s They were kind of a west coast B52s. They palyed along with the Nuns, Avenges, Dils, and many of the art punk bands of the early punk rock scene in Northern California. They are in the Louder Faster Shorter video and numerours articles had been written about them. Their influance has been felt by a generations of bands. —This unsigned comment was added by User:69.226.108.63
• Comment: Keeping in mind I was not the person who first called for deletion of this article - I just followed procedure by starting an AfD on a challenged {{prod}} - but I am happy for this article to stay. It needs some work, and I like the move proposed by Peter Werner above, but the article has potential and plenty of sources to work from. Harro5 05:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Note that I've just cleaned up this article a great deal. Peter G Werner 05:41, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.