Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Millers (second nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep and move. Chaser - T 04:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Millers

The Millers (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This is one in a series of articles speedy deleted as CSD A7, regarding an entrant in the TV show America's Got Talent. DRV overturned these deletions, finding an appearance on the show constituted an assertion of notability. I considered a group listing for all of these, but decided that each entrant might have a different degree of press coverage, and have so listed separately. The argument for deletion is a failure to meet WP:BIO. Incidentally, this particular article had a prior AfD in October 2006, which closed as keep. Xoloz 09:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 10:32, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Move to Clayton Miller Band. A quick search did reveal many trivial mentions such as in blogs but they have also been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. which meets criteria for inclusion per music notability. I've added a few. [1],[2] ♫ Cricket02 13:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:V. My opinion remains the same as in the first AfD debate: this group has not been the subject of coverage by reliable, third-party published sources. In fact, I could find no third-party sources whatsoever that provided any information outside their appearances on America's Got Talent (season 1) over a year ago. As before, I would support a Redirect to that article, which already contains almost everything here. -- Satori Son 13:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

• Move to Clayton Miller Band. I have revised my opinion based upon Cricket02's research and the resulting discussion below. -- Satori Son 15:33, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

This band has been the subject of multiple nontrivial published works, which meets WP:Music criterion for inclusion. Nothing says that it has to be "outside their appearances" on the program. ♫ Cricket02 08:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

My point is that The Millers are not the subject of those articles, the television show is. The information on the band itself is extremely minimal. -- Satori Son 10:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I've added about 25 references with only 2-3 relating to the show and removed original research. As stated below, many are articles copied to the band's website but authors are cited and therefore no real reason to believe these references are not reliable. Hope it helps to preserve this article. I've come across much less notable than this band. ♫ Cricket02 14:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Most of the references you added concern "The Clayton Miller Band", which is a different band than appeared on America's Got Talent (although it has some of the same members). If you would like to move this article in question to a new Clayton Miller Band article and make it primarily about that band, I would certainly not object. Otherwise, many of the references you added are irrelevant and should be removed. Thanks, Satori Son 14:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The Clayton Miller Band are mentioned in the article so none of the references are irrelevant. Propse a redirect in either direction, at the discretion of admin. ♫ Cricket02 15:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

While I disagree with you about the relevance of your additions to this article, I have changed my opinion above as you suggested. Thanks, Satori Son 15:33, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

You do have a point that most references regard the Clayton Miller Band and do in fact come from claytonmillerband.com. I support a move as well. ♫ Cricket02 15:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

• Comment One of the band's web site pages contains pre-"America's Got Talent" press coverage; most of those articles are from the band's hometown of Lafayette, Indiana. One shows that LD Miller performed on America's Most Talented Kid in 2003. [3] lists more recent articles from the Journal & Courier, which I am not going to purchase. And here are two more articles from the band's recent visits to Illinois and Florida. I will not have time to integrate these sources into the article right now, but I can in the next few days if the AfD survives. TLK^'in_(ER) 06:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I've added some article references, copied versions retrieved from claytonmillerband.com. Although these are copied to the website, authors are cited and therefore no real reason to believe these references are not reliable. ♫ Cricket02 14:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

• Delete of the two links listed above by Cricket02, the first is a throwaway mention in a list of other artists, which does not count as significant coverage. the second is a celebrity gossip blog which fails as not "significant coverage" as well as "reliability" reasons.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 03:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Those links were early in the discussion. More have since been added to the article directly, and concensus so far has been to move and redirect. However, I'm sure the authors of these articles up for deletion would appreciate at least a glance at their article before an opinion is cast. ♫ Cricket02 03:48, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete as noted above, mentions of the band itself are pretty trivial and do not rise above the level of listings. No substantive independent coverage from which a verifiably neutral article can be written. Guy (Help!) 17:46, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
• Move as suggested above. -- Roleplayer 03:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.