Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Ghosts of Libertatia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete (also after discounting anons). Kusma (討論) 02:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Ghosts of Libertatia

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Non-notable student organization, exists almost exlusively at one school, no notable activities. Some guy 20:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Delete As a UVA student, I've never heard of this organization or seen its logo on Grounds. It may be ultra secret, but not having ANY evidence whatsoever of any actions internal or otherwise, I must urge deletion.
• Strong Delete I have also never heard of this secret society. A secret society is difficult to verify indeed, but they have to have done SOMETHING visible or note worthy to truly exist. As a student at the University of Virginia, I can say I've never heard anything about this alleged secret society.
• Strong Delete Never heard of this secret society, nor seen a single symbol around Grounds at the University of Virginia (may indeed exist elsewhere, but not here). No verifiable activities, as far as we know it could be one person commenting on wikipedia. Other secret societies have been documented at least by the school newspaper, or are found in the University Guide Service handbook, but this one is neither. Probably just a handful of wannabe students that do not accomplish anything.
• Keep, Point taken, however it is more widespread that some secret societies that have been listed and asking for the notable activities of a secret society is difficult to satisfy. I suppose this makes the verifiability suspect, but perhaps the minor publishable activities and enough votes to keep will suffice. $mashkan 17:24, 11 April 2006
• I personally know of 3 schools where the ghosts are operating. GMU in Fairfax, VA for example. They do funny/cute things to make people think about liberty, or how global capitalism has brought them the comfortable lifestyle they are used to. Now if I could just find any members, so I could join... Mrbren 17:20, 11 April 2006
  • Comment: User's only contribution. Some guy 22:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• I also know of several schools where the ghosts seem to be active, most notably at VCU in Richmond, VA. Though their activities seem to be only moderately 'visable', logos pasted around campus, for example, Smashkan makes a point that they are more widespread than some other secret societies that have articles on Wikipedia. Verifiability, to me, is the only questionable criteria for this article and given that I am the third person to have witnessed their activities, I vote to keep it posted. Sireza 22:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: User's only contribution. Some guy 22:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Weak delete, unverified except multiple word-of-mouth. No sources cited; only external link is a fiction novel by William S. Burroughs, better known for his heroin gonzo stories. From the Publishers Weekly review of Ghost of Chance on Amazon: "It opens as Captain Mission, an 18th-century pirate, founds Libertatia, a utopian colony on Madagascar dedicated to protecting the indigenous landscape and lemur population (lemurs are known by island natives as "ghosts")." User Sireza is encouraged to review Wikipedia's Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources policies. Past AfD debates on secret societies have resulted in deletion except where a ton of published (and not just self-published) stuff exists (such as Skull and Bones). Can you show something more than "a bunch of rich kids are putting stickers and coffee around a couple of campuses"? Documentation would make WP's community more likely to come to a "keep" consensus. Barno 23:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Secret societies are inherently unverifiable. Stifle (talk) 00:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete No hits on Google web search or Google News. Not verifiable. Ande B 04:23, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
• Ok, I reviewed the verifiability policy, and have humbly accepted User Barno's point. According to Wikipedia's policies, unless something is published on this society, I understand the support for deleting the article. I'm not sure where you get the idea that it is a "bunch of rich kids", though. Even if it was, I don't see the relevance. Sireza 01:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

• Hey so I'm gonna go nuts and say delete... basically because unless there's media coverage, secret societies don't get on wikipedia... which makes pretty good sense. Hey, you UVA kids see the living wage stuff? I'm totally making pamphlets for the market wage. Ghosts saw enough of this crap at VCU, now here?! ARGH. $mashkan

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.