Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect. WP:MUSIC indicates that non-notable songs "should redirect to another relevant article" and, as the articles have already been merged, the articles must be retained for authorship history to satisfy the requirements of GFDL. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song)

The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This is simply a song written and performed by Gensis. Per WP:MUSIC songs should not have there own articles unless they have something that specifically sets their notability above most songs. This article makes no assertion of such. Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 04:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Adding the following:

The Fountain of Salmacis (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - Same reason as original article. This is just a (slightly better written) copy with the same notability per WP:MUSIC issues.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 14:14, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. --Kannie | talk 05:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Instead of creating song stubs like this one, I recommend detailing tracks in the album article, with redirects from song titles as appropriate; that makes a richly detailed album article instead of however many permastubs. (Example: Black Sabbath, Vol 4, my merge.) Since this stub is unusually skimpy, and the title is both malformed (spacing) and an unlikely search string (since readers are unlikely to add "(Genesis song)" in a search), just delete. / edg ☺ ☭ 06:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
• Comment. Coincidentally I was listening to the album that this song's from yesterday, but in Wikipedia-related terms, this is a poorer duplicate of The Fountain of Salmacis. I think that in general, stubby song articles should generally be merged to the album article, giving the album articles a greater chance of good article/featured article attainment.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 14:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
  • It should also be noted that The Musical Box (song), For Absent Friends and The Return of the Giant Hogweed are also songs from the Nursery Cryme album with indidvidual article pages - should these be deleted too? I think a mass merge is necessary.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 15:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I'd be happy to perform this merge if everyone else is okay with it. I'm asking permission because I do not normally edit Genesis articles. / edg ☺ ☭ 18:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Adding these to the discussion. / 18:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The Musical Box (song) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

For Absent Friends (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

The Return of the Giant Hogweed (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

The Fountain of Salmacis (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

• As I already suggested, these should all be merged and redirected to Nursery Cryme. I strongly suggest that we do that with these articles - deletion is not the answer. They lack stand-alone notability, but the album is definitely notable. (Good album, too, one of Genesis' best).-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 19:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I think it's possibly misleading to add these extra articles to the AfD after people have already voted delete - The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song) is a recently created article that as noted above is unusually skimpy, and just a poorer duplicate of The Fountain of Salmacis, which should be deleted anyway, whatever people's views on song articles. Mdwh (talk) 21:34, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
  • I added the new nominations in comments (instead of at the top) with a timestamped sig so that previous comments will be understood not to apply to these items. This was done deliberately to avoid the kind of confusion you mention. / edg ☺ ☭ 07:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete only for The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song) as it is redundant, and there seems no value in keeping the title as a redirect. Mdwh (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
• Redirect/Merge to Nursery Cryme for all other articles listed here. WP:MUSIC does not say that such articles should be deleted, it says "should redirect to another relevant article". At least some of the information in these articles is useful, and it's useful to have the redirects to avoid a load of broken links (not to mention avoid people recreating the articles in future). The songs easily meet notability, it's just that it's preferred to have the information in a single article rather than loads of separate stubs. Mdwh (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
• Comment. I have merged all 5 song stubs to Nursery Cryme. I made very few changes and deleted no content, but it would be helpful for someone familiar with Genesis to review my work. The song stubs can now be deleted or redirected as needed. / edg ☺ ☭ 23:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Good work. That was needing to be done. I'm interested of what you think of the existence of stubs about every song article on another 1971 album - Sticky Fingers by The Rolling Stones. I suggested at the WikiProject that these should be merged to the album article.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 05:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I am familiar with Genesis myself, but there are other Wikipedians who are also familiar with them per the fact that Genesis (band) and Phil Collins are featured articles.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 05:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
    • This kind of merge is easy to do. I'll look into Sticky Fingers. / edg ☺ ☭ 07:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Should we remove these other articles from the AfD now? (I'm not sure what the official procedure is - am just worried that when this inevitably closes as Delete, an admin will delete all the other redirects too as they are listed with this AfD, even though there seems to be consensus to keep them as redirects.) Mdwh (talk) 16:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete This song and others on the album have been merged into the album's entry. --Jeff Johnston (talk) 16:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Although the song titles should stay as redirects.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 00:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I still favor deleting titles with disambiguation strings on the end. This would include The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song) and The Musical Box (song). I agree with redirecting the 3 plainly titled articles. / edg ☺ ☭ 21:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
      • I agree regarding The Fountain of Salmacis(Genesis song), since that is completely redundant (we have the simpler The Fountain of Salmacis instead). However, The Musical Box (song) is still needed, as The Musical Box redirects to Musical box. We should have something for this song which redirects to the Nursery Cryme page. Mdwh (talk) 22:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Three options I like better than keeping The Musical Box (song):

1. Add {{Redirect6|The Musical Box|the Genesis song|Nursery Cryme}} to Musical box.
2. Change The Musical Box to redirect to the DAB page Music box. (This makes more sense for the search term "The Musical Box" than redirecting to the article for a literal music box, IMO.) Nursery Cryme is listed there.
3. Redirect The Musical Box to Nursery Cryme and add to Nursery Cryme {{Redirect6|The Musical Box|the Genesis tribute band|The Musical Box (band)}}. This makes even more sense since a search treating "The Musical Box" as a title ("The" + Proper noun caps) can only be those two things.

I like #3 best. Keeping The Musical Box (song) just so that song title is represented somewhere doesn't seem necessary. / edg ☺ ☭ 23:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

2 and 3 are fine with me, and I agree 3 makes most sense. It is a bit odd that someone searching for "The Musical Box" would be interested in the musical box title, as you say, the proper noun can only mean the song or the tribute band. Mdwh (talk) 11:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Option 3 implemented. [1] [2] / edg ☺ ☭ 12:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - this clearly isn't an encyclopedia article. Addhoc (talk) 15:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.