Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Cornballer

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. W.marsh 13:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Cornballer

The Cornballer (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Fails WP:N hard. A side joke that gets less than 5 minutes of total screentime throughout the entire series.SeizureDog 05:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep It is a running gag that gets a lot more then 5mins. It serves as the plot device for George Bluth Snr being arrested while hiding out in Mexico which leads to him faking his death. This is an important part of the show.Shniken1 05:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Les Cousins Dangereux — Shniken1 13:11, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - no independent reliable sources about this fictional product. This should be covered in the articles for the episodes per WP:FICT. The material here doesn't warrant an article and it never will. Otto4711 14:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Then add reliable sources to the page, don't delete it.Shniken1 14:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Um, there are no such sources. I cannot add what does not exist. Otto4711 15:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. As much as I love Arrested Development...and the Cornballer gags...this is not in the least bit notable. As mentioned above, there aren't any reliable sources. Smashville 17:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete as wholly non-notable and unreferenced. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 17:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Query - The question of notability in current or near-current pop culture pages seems a little bit blurry. There seems to be a consensus that every episode and every character of every television show merits its own page, which suggest a broad definition of "notable." SeizureDog has challenged a bunch of pages for embedded themes / gags specific episodes, and Shniken1 has defended them. The Cornballer, which I loved, is the only one I'm familiar with, and it seems to be entirely notable if you accept the premise that the minutiae of a tv show should be in Wikipedia at all.
As a thought experiment -- say A described B clinging so some ridiculous piece of technology as "a real cornballer-type situation," and C heard this and did a google search on "cornballer" with the expectation of reaching the appropriate Wikipedia page. This would mean that the concept "Cornballer" had entered the general culture, and if it were true, there would probably be some article in the media commenting on it, and that would be the reliable source for the Wikipedia page. Is that, more or less, the logic? Llajwa 19:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • WP:N requires reliable sources that are significantly about the subject. A "comment" about the Cornballer in an article is probably not going to be sufficient to establish notability. Otto4711 22:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
And a follow-up to that query: No one seems to question that an individual episode like My Mother, the Car deserves its own page, but the only sources for it are (in this case) a fansite, the Fox website, and WikiQuote. What exactly is the rationale for this, or any other individual episode, being notable? Llajwa 19:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • I question the necessity of every episode of every television series needing its own page. WP:EPISODE, the relevant guideline, agrees. The individual episode needs to meet general notability guidelines. If people wanted to get brutal about it, a huge percentage of the pages for individual episodes would be redirected to the show's article or an episode list. The reality of the situation is that there are enough fans of any particular show to manufacture consensus in favor of individual episodes. Just because the reality means that most of the individual episode pages would survive doesn't mean that this page about this particular aspect of the show should stand. Otto4711 22:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
OK - I follow your argument. Llajwa 23:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge this and Les Cousins Dangereux (and any other such things) to List of running jokes in Arrested Development, or something similar. The cornballer isn't the primary subject of any media mentions that I could find, but it does seem to be mentioned a fair amount as an example of a running gag in various articles about the show. JavaTenor 05:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
    • I'm not so sure about that. Look at the Mooninites from Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Originally they were only mentioned as part of the List of Aqua Teen Hunger Force villains page. But, as they gained prominence within that show, they got their own page. We went through this deletion discussion with that page, but it stayed because it was agreed that they were prominent enough. I think a List of running jokes in Arrested Development page would be good too, and the Cornballer should be mentioned on that page, but it also deserves its own page too. Keep. Gabefarkas 01:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
      • The Cornballer is no where near as notable as the Mooninites. Compare Google hits: to 371,000 to 795. Also, the Mooninites at least has the 2007 Boston Mooninite scare to establish real world notability.--SeizureDog 04:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.