Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Artists' Studio

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus to delete, default keep. Merge to Fishers, Indiana was suggested. —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-03-03 08:10Z

[edit] The Artists' Studio

The Artists' Studio (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable local community theater Feeeshboy 01:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep for now How about giving the author more than 5 minutes! the page was just created. If the place has reviews and mentions in big magazines/papers it might be notable enough. Give some time for the author to show it.Dacium 01:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment If that seemed remotely likely, I wouldn't have nominated it. As it is, the only reason I didn't nominate it for speedy delete was the possibility of regional interest, but in reality, an article that's created without a claim to notability isn't likely to develop one. Feeeshboy 01:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete It's a small-town community theater, rather new - I can't see what notability it could have. I'm sure it is a fine place, but it doesn't need an article here. --Brianyoumans 01:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• 'Delete. No sources. Need sources with evidence of notability per WP:ORG to survive deletion scrutiny.--Shirahadasha 02:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep for now, at least, so I, as the starting author, can throw some more on it. A lookup on Google of The "Artists' Studio" Fishers (a look up of The Artists' Studio is too vague as many claim that or a variation of that name) gets about 13 thousand entries, which may seem insignificant, but a related article, Indiana Repertory Theatre, gets only about 58 thousand entries. Considering Indiana Repertory Theatre has existed much longer as a theatre, The Artists' Studio is apparently getting it's name out there. The Google search being said, I was unsure as to whether it really was Wikipedia worthy or not.

Reasons for keeping are: "Notability is not popularity" (This theatre has made an impact on theatre in Indiana being one of the few of it's kind to feature a more family setting on a regular basis, especially on classes on non-covered material as of yet [also known as: give it time]).

"Notability criteria do not equate to personal or biased considerations, such as: "never heard of this". . ."only of interest to [some group]". . ." (To those that do know it, which in context to the world is not many at all, this article could be of quite a bit of use in informing people about the theatre and history of itself. The fact this theatre is new should not detract from it's effect on the surrounding community, no matter how small you may consider it to be in the grand scheme of things)

"In order to have a neutral article, a topic should be notable enough that the information about it will be from unbiased and unaffiliated sources" (This theatre has been featured in articles ranging from very local to statewide in Indiana, though many may not be published online.)

"Obscure content isn't harmful" (Just because you don't know it doesn't mean you need to get rid of it. It also doesn't mean YOU even need to read it, though it would be nice if you did when it was anywhere near ready :))

Reasons for deleting are: "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate directory of businesses, websites, persons, etc. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia." (An argument can definitely be made that this article is nothing more than a business entry, but the fact that there is a history, and that a decent size article can be made out of it, almost shoots this down.

"The subjective nature of notability is merely an issue of defining a guideline for it." (Clearly, if you don't agree with the selections I pulled above from WP:NOTE then you don't agree with keeping this article.)

But seriously, this article WAS given only SEVEN minutes before it was nominated for deletion. How about allowing a chance for anything other than a single edit (with only text and linking for that matter, not even tags, such as "stub", pictures, or even complete text/history, much less sources, etc.) before the final decision is made. After all, the classes the Artists' Studio provides and contributions to the surrounding area haven't been put in place. In fact, this article is only a fraction of what it could be, but creating a full article takes TIME. Even that section that was written took a fairly substantial amount of time. Enhanceddownloadbird 02:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep Are we strangling articles in the crib now? How was this article even found for AfD? Are editors combing through recent changes and killing new articles? This is distasteful. --Richard Daly 03:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment This article is not being considered for deletion because it is incomplete. It is being considered for deletion because it does not assert notability beyond a local level, and without some basic assertion of notability, there is no article. That's not something that takes time to develop. Basic notability should be evident from the start. That's my opinion, and you're welcome to yours, but uncivil comments are not necessary. Feeeshboy 03:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Apology I apologize for my uncivil tone. --Richard Daly 04:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep for now to give time for the article to be properly put together, with no discrimination against re-nominating if it doesn't meet the notability guidelines, etc. 23skidoo 03:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - regardless of how fast this article was nominated, it is now on AfD and will be for 5 days. Enhanceddownloadbird, I strongly recommend that you take that time to provide sources for the article. If you don't provide sources, it is almost certain that this article will be deleted. You say above that the theater has been featured in statewide articles; it would be best if you could be as specific as possible (links to something online are clearly the most helpful, but even if the mentions aren't hosted online, someone might be able to check out any references you provide if you tell us where to look). References that are independent of the theater, high circulation, and specifically about the theater (rather than just mentioning it) are important. -- Jonel | Speak 03:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep The article is currently well referenced and easily passes Wikipedia:There is no deadline , Oops I mean it easily passes WP:N Good job to User:Enhanceddownloadbird for cleaning it up nicely. ( I found and added a couple references also) Jeepday 04:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the additional references, I was more than happy to add them in! And thanks for the pat on the back too! Nevertheless, back to work. Enhanceddownloadbird 04:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per the (continuing) improvements by Enhanceddownloadbird. Also, it somehow strikes me as inappropriate to nominate for deletion an article that has existed only for a few minutes and which is not speedy-able. Adding it to one's watchlist, bookmarking it, contacting the author, or at most proposing it for deletion seem far better choices. -- Black Falcon 06:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep The Google (UK) search results returned about half a million results, although some of these were for different locations, it notability is still high.Tellyaddict 12:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep It's a nicely referenced article and does indeed seem to pass the notability requirements. *Zelse81 20:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep In current form, should be kept. Dfrg.msc 23:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
• keep If community high schools can sometimes be notable, then certainly community theaters can be--there are many fewer, they typically are important to a much larger area, and there ought to be sources. (The actual ghits for "Artist's Studio" + Indiana are 9,000, not 500,000, but a number of them are RS. )DGG 01:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep the current version, but I don't agree with the criticisms of the original listing. Someone writing an article should store intermediate versions on his or her hard drive, not on Wikipedia, and post it only when it's ready. That saves everyone's time. JamesMLane t c 05:49, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Has likely legs, no reason to kill it. - Denny 06:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, looks like it will most likely be expanded with more citations added in the future. Smee 21:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC).
• Keep. My personal view is that this is a loathsome article, and it breaks my heart that an encyclopedia on which I work should cover such a trivial institution. I say that with explicit regard to its position in its local community: certainly it's important there, but in the broader scheme of artistic endeavour it is of no significance whatsoever, as a cursory reading of the numerous reviews referenced in the article makes very clear. Sadly, when I check the references it is easy to see that this article meets our criteria for notability: adequate references are there, and the subject of the article clearly meets WP:ORG. Thus, with a sigh, I have to say that under our current community guidelines this article should be retained. This article is one of the best examples of why we need to tighten up our notability criteria, but until we do, it should stay. WMMartin 13:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I am quite happy to rest upon WP:IGNORE here; this may technically meet notability requirements, but when one uses common sense, one sees that no real claim of notability is made or even really attempted in this article - it is just a small community theater of little or no interest to anyone outside the local area. The founders may have some slight notability themselves, but if so, they should have articles of their own. If this deserves a mention in Wikipedia, it is in the Fishers, Indiana article, like any other local institution per WP:LOCAL. --Brianyoumans 19:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.