Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tang Yuhan
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Delete. The majority of consensus lies with the deletion of this article, primarily because of the lack of established Notability. Whilst the addition of citations is commendable, unfortunately the fact that they are in Chinese means that cannot be confirmed as Reliable Sources. Anthøny 18:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Tang Yuhan
Not notable. Not verifiable, lacking reliable sources. Chinese version translated by Altavista on talk page does not add anything notable, nor any sources. No googles on Tang Yuhan doctor that do not refer to Wikipedia on him or to Catholic University of Leuven, where he is supposed to have graduated before 1930, making him at least 99 years of age. Paul Pieniezny 15:50, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. I have added reliable sources to prove his notability. Unfortunately the sources are in Chinese language. If you can read, please check. Thanks.--Neo-Jay 16:14, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment Because I do not want to run the risk of WP:BIAS being invoked, I have put the translation of these two on the talk page as well. Checking on the basis of WP:BIO, this is obviously not a hoax, but vital information for a real biography is still missing. The second article only confirms the most important feat, ie donating about a million US dollars to a hospital, and a large part of the biography was already in the Chinese version. We still only know about him from 1998, we have no birthdate, no (precise) dates for other things he is supposed to have done. The article summary calls him an eminent cancerologist, but the only thing which seems more or less clear is that he is or was a shrewd investor. How old is this man? --Paul Pieniezny 16:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Reply. He was born in 1912. And I have provided reliable source for his membership in Royal College of Physicians of London and Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. Thing speaks for itself. These memberships can prove his achievements as a doctor.--Neo-Jay 17:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment Because I do not want to run the risk of WP:BIAS being invoked, I have put the translation of these two on the talk page as well. Checking on the basis of WP:BIO, this is obviously not a hoax, but vital information for a real biography is still missing. The second article only confirms the most important feat, ie donating about a million US dollars to a hospital, and a large part of the biography was already in the Chinese version. We still only know about him from 1998, we have no birthdate, no (precise) dates for other things he is supposed to have done. The article summary calls him an eminent cancerologist, but the only thing which seems more or less clear is that he is or was a shrewd investor. How old is this man? --Paul Pieniezny 16:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Delete no indication of notability. Dahn 20:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. OK. I just added another two citations from People's Daily for his presidency of Hong Kong Chinese Medical Association and his great contributions to Chinese education. I don't know what your standard of notability is. But are those sources sufficient? If not, what proof do you need? --Neo-Jay 21:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Let us first say that thanks to your intervention, the article has improved a lot. However, there are still notability problems. First, his membership of the two British medical colleges. To become a member, you must pass an exam - but any exam will allow you to become a member of both (actually, also of the Glasgow college), provided you pay. And perhaps having passed the exam at Leuven already gave him the right to that membership. Do not get me wrong: any Chinese doctor who also has a Leuven diploma and has passed one of the three British exams is more than probably notable in China, but unfortunately not really in the English-speaking world (I could not find the membership number for the London college, but Edinburgh's website claims 10,000 members). No, we cannot have articles on any "good doctor", we could have an article on an "eminent cancerologist", if only someone had written about him and his methods, success rate, ... I found this about the Sino-Belgian hospital at Shanghai. I do not see Tang's name anywhere. The Hong Kong Chinese Medical Association claims to exist since 1995 - the text of our article suggests Tang was a president long before the 90s. But that is a minor problem (the text of an article can always be improved), far more damning is the number of members claimed: 128. That is about one tenth of the number of doctors in Iceland. of course: this works diffrently than the number of medical college members. The smaller an organisation like that is, the less notable its president. --Paul Pieniezny 22:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Thanks for your information. Even though Tang may not be a notable physician, can he be still notable as a great benefactor of Chinese education and the Honorary Dean of Ningbo University Medical School? --Neo-Jay 22:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Let us first say that thanks to your intervention, the article has improved a lot. However, there are still notability problems. First, his membership of the two British medical colleges. To become a member, you must pass an exam - but any exam will allow you to become a member of both (actually, also of the Glasgow college), provided you pay. And perhaps having passed the exam at Leuven already gave him the right to that membership. Do not get me wrong: any Chinese doctor who also has a Leuven diploma and has passed one of the three British exams is more than probably notable in China, but unfortunately not really in the English-speaking world (I could not find the membership number for the London college, but Edinburgh's website claims 10,000 members). No, we cannot have articles on any "good doctor", we could have an article on an "eminent cancerologist", if only someone had written about him and his methods, success rate, ... I found this about the Sino-Belgian hospital at Shanghai. I do not see Tang's name anywhere. The Hong Kong Chinese Medical Association claims to exist since 1995 - the text of our article suggests Tang was a president long before the 90s. But that is a minor problem (the text of an article can always be improved), far more damning is the number of members claimed: 128. That is about one tenth of the number of doctors in Iceland. of course: this works diffrently than the number of medical college members. The smaller an organisation like that is, the less notable its president. --Paul Pieniezny 22:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. OK. I just added another two citations from People's Daily for his presidency of Hong Kong Chinese Medical Association and his great contributions to Chinese education. I don't know what your standard of notability is. But are those sources sufficient? If not, what proof do you need? --Neo-Jay 21:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Comment. I'm neutral as to whether the the subject is notable, but I'd just like to point out that "probably notable in China, but unfortunately not really in the English-speaking world" is not a valid argument for deletion. English Wikipedia is a resource for the whole world, not just for those in anglophone countries. Plenty of people in China can read English and use English Wikipedia. You say that you don't want WP:BIAS to be invoked, but I am invoking it here. Phil Bridger 12:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Comment. O dear, I should have expected that one. WP:BIAS is used to allow Chinese sources on him, though he lived for most of his life in an anglophone country, but did you read why I said he may be notable in China? There are at least 10,000 doctors (and probably far more, because I do not know how many members the London college has) in the world who have the same qualifications as this doctor. Every non-wiki source on him is in Chinese. The one English-language source on the first hospital he was president of, does not mention him. We are not talking about an Icelander, a Chuvash or an Ainu, but a member of the largest ethnic in the world. --Paul Pieniezny 14:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Comment. As I said above, even though he may not be a notable doctor, he may still be a notable benefactor. I cannot see any notability of John William Sterling other than his great donation to Yale University. Ningbo Government and Zhejiang Government awarded Tang Yuhan two honorary titles for his contributions. I don't know how many people received such titles, but apparently much less than 10,000, I think. --Neo-Jay 14:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
