Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sunder Nagar

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 01:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sunder Nagar

Sunder Nagar (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Smaller area within a town that alone is hardly notable. In short, article just doesn't meet Wikipedia:Notability criterion. PeteShanosky 00:23, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Not a large enough neighborhood. DGG 02:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: There are amny other Sunder Nagars in India like SunderNagar, and the later can never be spelt as SundarNagar. The page Sunder Nagar should be made a disambiguation page. However, Sunder Nagar may be notable and must be having population of several thousand. We have many pages devoted to villages containing a line and population of few households. --Masterbobo 09:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. As a person who has lived for 12 years in Mumbai, I believe that this is not notable enough of an area to deserve its own article (or a redirect). I've added salvageable content to Malad (will fix the cut and paste move if the result is delete). utcursch | talk 15:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Not only notability is questioned, the text of the article has been copied from article Malad_(Mumbai_suburb), a second copy is not needed at all. Mayank Abhishek 06:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep -- Geographical entities are notable no matter how small they are. There is no policy that states otherwise. See for example Dhobitalao. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

  Dhobitalao is not a minor locality -- it a major area that contains villages such as Cavel or Kolwar. It is also of historical importance[1], and is listed as a visitor attraction in most Mumbai travel guides[2]. On the other hand, Sunder Nagar is just a small area in Malad suburb that contains a few housing socities. The place doesn't have a post office of its own, and doesn't seem to be of any administrative/tourist/historical importance either (the article says it was found in 1970s). I'm not sure what do you mean by a "geographical entity" here -- if you mean an administrative unit or an area with its own Post Office, Sunder Nagar is not one of these. If you mean any place that exists, every nook and corner of a city consisting of a few buildings and a garden can be considered as a geographical entity -- not all of these are notable. utcursch | talk 14:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  See comments below> =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Considering WP:NOTE, there ought to be cut-and-dry cases made for the notability (or lack thereof) for all articles. Aside from utcursch, can anyone else make a valid case for deleting or retaining this article? --Aarktica 17:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

  It has its own PIN code [3] I hope that notability is finally set. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

  I don't know that pointing to a location code is a valid argument. It might be helpful to review the essay on notability, before making a case – one way or the other. For example, a valid argument should be able to withstand WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE-derived scrutiny. --Aarktica 18:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

  It is. A user might want to research the history of a particular location in a city, how it got it's name and the demographics of the area. I've given a ripe example of Dhobitalao, a location within a larger area in the same city. I don't see how this can be ever classified as indiscriminate information; that assumption would be ludicrous. It is a place, has people, has a history, geography, and probably culture. A rewrite is definately possible, including having a locator map. =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  Nichalp, the PIN Code is not for Sunder Nagar. It's the PIN code for Malad (West) and surrounding areas in Kandivali and Goregaon. Check that webpage again -- the PINCode 400064 is same for all the localities mentioned on that page (including places like Adarsh Dugdhalaya, Anand Road, B J Patel Road etc.). I don't know what do you exactly mean by "geographical entities", but not every single locality is notable -- there are practically hundreds of localities in Malad. Sunder Nagar is not a suburb/taluka/village/post office -- it's just a minor locality consisting of few housing blocks, two schools, and a garden. Unless, the place is of some historical/political/administrative importance, such a locality is not notable enough to have its own article. All the information in the article is present in Malad. utcursch | talk 13:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  See comments below =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per nichalp.Bakaman 23:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: the really notable Sunder/Sundar Nagar in India is the one in Delhi which was for many years the only privately built colony in New Delhi, and continues to be the area with the second highest land prices per square foot in the city. Delhi locales are under-representede here. Hornplease 23:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions. --   ⇒ bsnowball  10:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. Anwar 16:22, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comments - reply to Utcursh

I'm not sure what parameters are used to ascertain that a place is not notable.

• Does the location have a history = yes
• Sizable population = yes
• Geography = yes
• Etymology = yes
• Culture & Demographics = probably (undocumented)

My question is, what parameters does one need to ascertain that it is non notable? Is it because it is too small? (a population of a thousand is anyways notable); The second question is: How is this place different from say Bayswater, Queens? =Nichalp «Talk»= 04:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

update I have improved the page. Please have a look. =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• comment there are neighborhoods, and on the other hand there are housing developments. such developments can under very exceptional circumstances be notable, but usually they are not. The generic name, the fact that the agencies mentioned are apparently much larger in scope than just this district, and the lack of any references , indicates that this is probably among the great majority of non-notable housing developments or tracts. DGG 05:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  Could you clarify what you mean by a housing development vs a neighbourhood? I've added some references. Thanks~ =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  Goa Tourism, Bombay Small Scale Industries, and MTNL have offices in a location known as Sunder Nagar. If it were a small housing development, it would not be mentioned by such organizations. =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  Goa tourism doesn't have an office in Sunder Nagar -- the link provided points to existence of a travel agent in the area. The existence of Goregaon MTNL exchange establishes notability of Goregaon, not that of Sunder Nagar; the MTNL exchange is a building -- it has to be in some locality. Again, Bombay Small Scale Industries doesn't have an office in Sunder Nagar -- the link points to address of one "Mr. S. J. Bechal" in a co-operative housing society situated in Sunder Nagar. Every area of a few hundred square meters (even a housing society) will have some "history", geography, sizable population (esp. if it is in a densely populated city like Mumbai), etymology and demography. Existence of an article on Bayswater, Queens is WP:WAX argument -- I don't have much idea about Bayswater, but it is home to a state park (Bayswater Point State Park) and a Google search leads to some non-trivial coverage([4][5] etc.). On the other hand, there are no non-trivial mentions of Sunder Nagar, Malad that can provide suitable references needed for an article. All the current "references" are just a few trivial mentions -- [6] is a mention in a list of around 150 localities in Malad (West), [7] is a daily "City Briefs" column that has one sentence about a one-day free healing camp in the area, and [8] is the address of college situated in Sunder Nagar locality. In absence of any non-trivial sources, the locality doesn't seem to be important enough to have its own article -- a para or two in the Malad article looks just fine. utcursch | talk 10:11, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• Question, what is the area of this region, in square kms or some other useful measurement? Also, any idea what the population of this region is? John Vandenberg 06:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  This data would be available in the P/North ward municipal office of the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  The area is around 255m * 150m = 0.03825 sq. km (see Google maps). utcursch | talk 10:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  I have posted a temporary kmz roughly outlining the area covered in the Google Maps link. I think both the Google Maps and my Google Earth boundaries are wrong, as the schools that have been mentioned lie outside this boundary. John Vandenberg 01:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.