Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stop and Chat

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete - FrancisTyers · 11:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stop and Chat

Not notable, unverifiable, and possibly the recreation of deleted material (see link, it's been speedied twice). Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trick or Treat Bang Bang from the same author for the same objections. Dylan 11:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, or include in the article on the show from which this came. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 11:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete This article appears to be defining what a "Stop and Chat" is through means of its origins. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and this phrase mentioned in one episode of one show isn't notable. --Porqin 12:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete CYE cruft. -- GWO
• Keep How on earth was a phrase used in the UK by the entire population possibly coined by someone in the last year?, that's from the discussion page for the article, by an anonymous user. It may not have been invented by Larry David, or even popularized by him, but does seem notable. A Google search gives 92 200 hits, and most of the first hundred hits is in this context (and a majority doesn't even mention Curb nor David). qwm 16:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment The first google hit mentions Larry David as the founder (or popularizer) of the term. That being said, this is a term and Wikipedia is not a dictionary. We don't make an encyclopedic entry for every set of actions one can do, ie. walk and chat, stop and talk, etc. This isn't notable to make an encylopedia entry about. --Porqin 17:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment The first result I get is from UrbanDictionary.com, which does attribute it to Larry David, but which is far from a reliable source (as it is user-controlled). For all we know, the same person wrote both the Wikipedia article and the Urban Dictionary entry. 63.76.142.114 19:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unless common currency (per Qwm) can be demonstrated and included in the article Alcuin 14:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Some such articles are useless - I agree that Trick or Treat Bang Bang can go. But Stop and Chat is actually more popular, and there are plenty of google results as pointed out above. It's not used well-enough to warrant a huge article, but it's certainly notable and worth having a bit of background on, I think. I don't see any reason at all to delete it. It's nice to have, in my opinion. --midkay 10:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - This article (Stop and Chat) is already the first result for a Google search. Maybe a notable Google result: an article at the Daily Northwestern which uses "Stop and Chat" in this context. --midkay 10:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete It's just stupid... 82.152.225.137 19:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC) {Latinx|}}

• Comment - Article rewritten a bit to make it clearer that the origin is unknown but that it was used in Curb your Enthusiasm, which gave it popularity. --midkay 00:33, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Thanks for your efforts, but I still note that (1) there's no indication that the phrase is even popular at all, and (2) no indication that it was Larry David who popularised it. Dylan 01:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - Well, I don't think there are any statistics anywhere which can "prove" that it's a popular phrase - although you said "indication that it's popular" (I'd assume you meant to ask for proof), and it is indicated in the article. Nor is there definitive proof of how it became popular. Most of the Google results use the phrase in the same context that Larry David did, so it's a good guess that his TV show gave it some popularity (e.g. "I didn't want to stop and chat", "I hate the stop and chat"...). Again, Google has plenty of results for this; I did in fact come here looking for a Stop and Chat page before deciding to write one ("I wonder what Wikipedia has on 'Stop and Chat'" versus "Hm, I feel like writing a Stop and Chat article); it's fair enough to imagine that people have done the same before, isn't it? The article's also been updated again with more background; more to come, probably. --midkay 02:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment While I agree with your assessment on a factual level, the article still doesn't meet the requirements for Wikipedia in terms of verifiability. All material has to already have been published by a reliable, outside source. What source has defined the stop-and-chat in the same way that it is presented in the article? What source has stated that this is a popular phrase? What source has stated that Larry David popularised it? And why haven't these sources been cited in the article? Dylan 05:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - Just some sources for the stuff I added: [1] [2] [3] qwm 05:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Those are fine for the Hispanic customs that are discussed in the article, but again, not for the original definition or the mention of Larry David. Further, I feel like their might be a slight confusion here, between the Larry David use (the stop-and-chat: a specific, defined social encounter) and the common phrasing of "stop and chat," the coincidental use of those particular words to describe a social encounter not thought of as ritualistic or a specifically-defined encounter.

I hope that made sense. For example, see Facts of Life. That's a common euphemism for knowledge about human sexual/reproductive activity. However, there are instances in which that phrase could be used, but not in reference to the idea of the euphemism: for example, someone could say, "The idea that sometimes you have to do unpleasant things is just one of the facts of life."

This is the kind of distinction that I feel may be a problem with the stop-and-chat: while many people may have chosen to use the particular words "stop and chat," I still fail to see anything other than Larry David that defines it as a codified, specific social encounter rather than a particular way to describe a common practice. And if it's the latter, we would be seeing articles entitled shoot the breeze, make small talk, bump-into, and the like. Dylan 05:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Commment - Well, I'm not really sure what to say. I personally feel like the article's nice to have, as I'm sure some people have looked for it before, but I can't prove that nor can I prove that it's "popular" or "widely used" in this context. My vote is keep, but I don't think anyone else is convinced. :( --midkay 06:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.