Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stefan Grun

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per WP:SNOW. --- Glen 09:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stefan Grun

Prod contested by article creator. Football umpire. Herostratus 08:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - Following the lead of many of the major codes (see the A-League, many of the referees there do) and the List of Australian rules football umpires. It's even referenced, so no problems with verifying the facts. WP:BIO states "Sportspeople/athletes who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States." There is absolutely no doubt that umpires are "sportspeople", and they are participating in a fully professional league. I think that the intended meaning of "played" should be assumed to be "participated in". Unless you're denying that the AFL is a "fully professional league". Surely an umpire who has performed at the highest level, in a "fully professional league", should have an article if "articles about first team squad members who have not made a first team appearance may also be appropriate". Daniel.Bryant 09:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - I'm not sure if you realise that AFL is the top of Australian rules football. An umpire at that level is definitely notable, I'm sure I can quote WP:BIO on that as well. Also note that the article is entirely verifiable as well, as there is plenty of info about this on the net. Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 09:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 09:21, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Delete Weak Keep (after re-write with comment below) for same reasons as listed on Damien Sully AfD below. There is the saying that a the very best umps are the ones whose names that you'll never known--namely because they don't end up screwing up a bad call and becoming notorious. By the nature of their profession they are really on the periphey of notability in their sport--important, yes but not really notable. If there was something substantial that happened in their career (again, like a bad call or charges of corruption) then we have something that might be in the ballpark. Right now, this guy is pretty non-descript. 205.157.110.11 09:25, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment After the re-write, an additional notability factor was introduced for Stefan Grun (the role change following his collision/injury). That extra bit of info works for me, however I'm not swayed on Damien Sully. 205.157.110.11 09:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Well sourced, would be a good article with a little work. --CableModem 09:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:BIO. -- I@n 10:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep. While it is not completely clear that umpires qualify as automatically as players, we have set a reasonably low bar in saying that being on the team list is enough. In my experience, football umpires usually become fairly well known even without making particularly notorious decisions (this may reflect the fact that the nature of many of their decisions is such that they are always slightly controversial). Verifiability is not a problem, so there's no harm in keeping it. JPD (talk) 11:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, umpire at the elite level in a high profile national sport, which I think is a category of general notability. --bainer (talk) 13:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. We have many articles on umpires in other sports, and AFL is no different. Rebecca 22:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per the above comments. Yamaguchi先生 23:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Ansell 08:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.