Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/StarCraft Clans

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. ELIMINATORJR 21:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] StarCraft Clans

StarCraft Clans (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Fails WP:N and violates WP:OR. These clans are probably not more notable than a local sports club. No independent references (nor any sources at all) have been given. -- Sent here as part of the Notability wikiproject. --B. Wolterding 14:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete article is completely WP:OR and I fail to see much notability for just "Starcraft clans" Corpx 16:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. I don't see any way to meet WP:RS or WP:V either. --Bfigura (talk) 17:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete as failing WP:ORG. There appear to a lot of other Starcraft related articles that could be AFD candidates which seem to be badly written and referenced WP:Fancruft. --Gavin Collins 22:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I can now say everything I now know about StarCraft Clans I learnt from this article. As a phenomona that has passed me by this article has been a useful in learning about the topic, I now at least know that the topic exists, and have some search terms I can use to Google farther information. Okay so things need to be sourced, however knowing the nature of fans in general any major inaccuracies and controversies will have been dealt with in a Darwinian process of editing. The edit history shows editing by multiple editors over a period of almost two years with the article stabilising into a form seemingly acceptable to editors of different persuasions. Given this I'd be willing to trust that the article is for the most part factually correct. As to notability the online gaming community is a huge phenomona, individual clans may not be notable but in total the claim on the talk page that in Korea alone there are approximately 3000 clans averaging 50 members each 150,000 active particpants. I would say notability approaches that of a minor religous cult not merely a local sports club. As a topic it may not interest you or me but that doesn't stop it being notable.KTo288 03:17, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Comment - I personally don't see a problem with notability, but I can't imagine how to meet WP:V. Unless you know of a reliable source that discusses starcraft clans, and can verify the article's information, it probably has to go. --Bfigura (talk) 03:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Comment Could you expand on why you think there should be no problems with notability please. Its up on two counts so if we can get one of them out of the way we can concenrate on the other.KTo288 08:59, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Comment Sure. It's more based on the fact that given how popular the phenomenon is, I'm guessing that there are references that talk about clans. (Not that I'm convinced that the references have been produced and used to prove notability). But given the nature of of such clans (pseduo-fancruft-y and all), I imagine that most of those references would be unreliable. So, I thought I'd focus on the verifiability issue. --Bfigura (talk) 16:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I've found and added two sources to the article, one from the National Defense University and one from Esther Dyson.KTo288 09:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)KTo288 17:11, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
    • As far as I could see, these sources are about gaming clans in general, and only briefly mention StarCraft as an example. They mention the commercial success of StarCraft in Korea (which may underline the notability of the game), and quote the number of StarCraft clans; but I think they are not suited for establishing the notability of a "StarCraft Clans" article. Citing these sources in StarCraft may be appropriate, though. --B. Wolterding 08:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as subpage/spinoff If we say this article, which is intricately tied to the main StarCraft page, is worthy of deletion because of notability...then it would seem that we would have to throw the main page up for deletion as well. Scanning through I didn't notice as POV problems, it seems very encyclopedic in nature. I think that if this page is to continue, there needs to be a visible link to it from the main page. (Myhorses 17:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC))
    • In my opinion, an article that is not verifiable against sources is not encyclopedic in nature. The content given here is, in most parts, not attributable to the sources added later. --B. Wolterding 08:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment. Sources that can be used for attribution for the content can be found, but of the type which will be dismissed as "fancruft-y". If nothing else, even if they don't verify the content of the article, the sources I've added can be used to show the notabilty of the topic, that it is notable enough to be the subject of scholarly analysis.KTo288 12:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
        • As far as I understood the sources, they scholarly analyze the topic "gaming clans", but not "StarCraft clans". (Also, it would rather be unlikely to find such an analysis related to one single product only.) --B. Wolterding 16:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - StarCraft clans is not a notable or verifiable topic. The article describes a mix of gaming clans in general and several Battle.net features. The Further Reading discusses clans in general, not StarCraft clans. There's nothing separate StarCraft clans from any other type of gaming clan. --Scottie_theNerd 09:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Note This debate has been included in the list of Video games deletons KTo288 19:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete - I agree with the nominator. If anything here could be considered encyclopedic (unlikely), it could be integrated into StarCraft#Multiplayer. -- Sabre 13:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - the provided references might be useful for Clan (computer gaming), but there is no particular coverage of StarCraft clans. Marasmusine 14:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.