Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spiro Krallis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Dagwoods. All info has already been merged. Fabrictramp | talk to me 15:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spiro Krallis

Spiro Krallis (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

• Comment - I am just wondering if this person is significant enough to have his own article on Wikipedia. This person did found what is now a very fast-growing restaurant chain and has been explosive growth at all of its restaurants in recent years, hence the reason why I created the article. However, the restaurant chain is not popular nation-wide yet. What are your thoughts? Habs4ever (talk) 16:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You've done much more than just re-create the article on Krallis, Habs4ever. You've a) been repeatedly adding spam about Dagwoods into Montreal b) created an article on Dagwoods which is very promotional in tone and I have tagged as such. c) possibly violated WP:POINT by anonymously nominating the article on multi-billionaire Subway founder Fred De Luca for nomination (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fred De Luca) when one of your earlier articles on the Dagwoods founder was speedily deleted. That aside, WP guidelines require multiple prominent independent sources to establish notability. You've added a link to a Montreal Gazette article and that's one. But until I see multiple sources, my vote is to delete. Sorry, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. — Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment The reason I added a link to Dagwoods on the Montreal page was because of the restaurant's chain recent success in attracting people away from the usual Subway and Quiznos because it promotes itself as a "Made in Montreal" restaurant. I included in a section that made reference to other Montreal-based companies...so it seemed appropriate.Habs4ever (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You did much more than add a link. You rewrote part of the History section of the city of Montreal to expound on the glories of Dagwoods and founder Spiro Kralis (sic). Wikipedia is not a platform to publicize this company or its founder. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment - I added to the history section, I did not rewrite it. Any ways, this discussion should be regarding this specific article and not any other. My concern is about this person's significance. I have explained why the person is significant, and I've also brought up why perhaps there shouldn't be an article on him on Wikipedia.Habs4ever (talk) 17:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Question Your articles on Spiro Kralis (one "l") have twice been deleted. Why did you spell his name differently this time? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe the correct procedure would have been to take this up at Wikipedia:Deletion review -- not to create this article for the third time albeit with a slightly differently spelling of the last name, possibly to mask the deletion history. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You inserted substantial content about Dagwoods into a paragraph that was otherwise about Montreal's rate of economic growth in the 1990s compared to other cities in Canada. That's more than just "adding"; even if Dagwoods does get mentioned in the main article on Montreal that's not even close to being the correct section for it. Bearcat (talk) 18:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• - I changed the spelling because that's how his name is apparently spelled (i did not know that beforehand, I was positive it was with only one "l" but according to the article its with 2 "ll"s.Habs4ever (talk) 19:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• - Changing the spelling WAS NOT to mask anything, especially the deletion history. Go check out the first line of the source that was referenced and you will see how it is spelled. There was NO SINISTER INTENTION!Habs4ever (talk) 19:08, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete – Could find no information under either spelling. In that there is no information, there is no case for Notabilty. As a side note, the on going discussion above, though entertaining, is better served at Dispute resolution than here. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 19:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - I found another source under the name Spiro Krallis. It is now provided on the article itself. It is in French, however it is obvious in the first couple of lines that his name is mentioned and it is spelled with two Ls, not one. Habs4ever (talk) 19:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - Heck, here are some more articles with his name mentioned: http://www.fitforces.com/article-bringing-the-gym-home.htm and http://hbotmontreal.com/Events/2000/DEKA/recipients.asp Habs4ever (talk) 20:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment – I am in agreement the restaurant does have a claim to Notability and should be included here at Wikipedia. My contention is that the claim does not extend to Mr. Krallis. The articles that you did provide, do mention Mr. Krallis. However, the subject matter covered in the pieces was primarily about the restaurant and not the owner. With regards, to additional information on Mr. Krallis, concerning Mr. Krallis, I could find none. Sorry, as everyone knows here at Afd I am always willing to say Keep! Just give me a good reason :-). ShoesssS ^Talk 20:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• (e/c)Comment - It seems that this spelling here is the right one, so that is okay as we should indeed not assume that it was previously misspelled on purpose. Bring up oneself as creator an article at AfD is also somewhat unusual but looking at the log for Spiro Kralis, I see that the first version was deleted as expired proposed deletion, which if challenged would have customarily been restored at Deletion review, sooner or later moved to the correct name and probably send to AfD anyways. In other words, we can now just asses the topic here as well. Above mentioned nomination and the name dropping wasn't helpful, though, but if still necessary it can be discussed elsewhere.--Tikiwont (talk) 20:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Dagwoods. Not notable enough for own article, but a plausible search term in relation to the chain. --Dhartung | Talk 20:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect per Dhartung. With these two RS, I'd be fine with that. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Dagwoods – While Dagwoods appears notable enough, the articles mentioned about Spiro Krallis aren't really about him, but instead simply mention him. There are two on the restaurant chain, that mention Spiro Krallis. There is an article on fitness that uses Spiro Krallis as an example, and there is an award for his restaurant chain that list him as proprietor. All of these indicate that he is not particularly notable on his own, but notable only in relation to the restaurant chain he founded. According to WP:BIO, the information on Spiro Krallis should just be merged into Dagwoods. If he later becomes notable for events outside the restaurant chain, or other reasons come up that the articles should be split, then the articles can be split at a later date. — λ (talk) 21:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect. There is no reason why he can't be mentioned in the Dagwoods article, but his notability does not seem separate from Dagwoods. DigitalC (talk) 23:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect, Krallis doesn't seem notable in his own right. Reggie Perrin (talk) 20:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• Redirect and Merge. The other way around, so I'm not copying....IMHO, Dagwoods is not yet large enough to make its founder notable simply for founding the place. Sorry. J.delanoy ^gabs analyze 14:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.