Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Songs about sex
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 14:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Songs about sex
It's funny how shortly after I say "Might as well make a list of songs about love" in this AfD, this article crops up in my sights. Unmaintainable list that violates WP:NOT. Danny Lilithborne 07:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Also nominated under this AfD:
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- List of songs about sex
- Would you mind explaining how this violates WP:NOT? If this violates somehow, then so does Songs about animals, Songs about places, Songs about Elvis, List of songs about homosexuality, and many many more. --Daniel Olsen 07:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Indiscriminate collection of information. You can't convince me that the topic "songs about sex" has a very specific focus. Danny Lilithborne 08:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- The title alone shows the focus, "songs about sex". It's self-explanatory. Lists fall under nothing in WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information. Not all lists are indiscriminate sources of information. WP:LISTS, a guideline for wikipedia, governs the use of lists and justifies their existance. Your objections to lists in general should be voiced at the talk page there. --Daniel Olsen 08:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- The guideline page you cite contains references to WP:V which this page cannot meet; many lists have been deleted under the criteria I previously cited as well. Danny Lilithborne 08:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Well I see your point, but what do you expect for sources? "The New York Times has determined that the song Bad Touch is about sex. Groundbreaking." For all of the List of songs about _____ articles, you're not going to find sources that say "This song is about _____". What should be done about things that are so obvious they're not written anywhere? --Daniel Olsen 08:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- It's amazing what people write about, sometimes. Before asserting that there are "things that are so obvious they're not written anywhere", do the research. You might find that there are copious sources on the subject, which you can use to entirely refute the argument that this is unverifiable. Please do research and attempt to find sources, rather than trying to argue that we should make exceptions to our sourcing policies. You should be working from sources in the first place, anyway. Uncle G 11:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Here's a hint: There are 8 pages of sleeve notes that you could cite, for starters, which you will find when you do the research. Uncle G 11:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Which might be relevant for articles about the songs or the albums they're on. It doesn't begin to justify this list's existence. Danny Lilithborne 20:03, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- The sleeve notes that I'm alluding to are on the subject of a collection that is specifically entitled "songs about sex". I've exhorted those who want the article kept to do the research. I exhort those who want the article deleted to do the research, also. Uncle G 15:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- Which might be relevant for articles about the songs or the albums they're on. It doesn't begin to justify this list's existence. Danny Lilithborne 20:03, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Well I see your point, but what do you expect for sources? "The New York Times has determined that the song Bad Touch is about sex. Groundbreaking." For all of the List of songs about _____ articles, you're not going to find sources that say "This song is about _____". What should be done about things that are so obvious they're not written anywhere? --Daniel Olsen 08:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- The guideline page you cite contains references to WP:V which this page cannot meet; many lists have been deleted under the criteria I previously cited as well. Danny Lilithborne 08:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- The title alone shows the focus, "songs about sex". It's self-explanatory. Lists fall under nothing in WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information. Not all lists are indiscriminate sources of information. WP:LISTS, a guideline for wikipedia, governs the use of lists and justifies their existance. Your objections to lists in general should be voiced at the talk page there. --Daniel Olsen 08:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Indiscriminate collection of information. You can't convince me that the topic "songs about sex" has a very specific focus. Danny Lilithborne 08:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Definitely unmanagable. The lists of songs about animals and places also look a little iffy and might be worth looking into as well, now that you mention it. -Elmer Clark 08:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
MoveMerge to List of songs about sex. See my arguments above. --Daniel Olsen 08:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)- Comment Adding that page to this AfD since it's basically the same thing. (The talk page contains a rather poignant comment from NawlinWiki.) Danny Lilithborne 08:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Merge It with List of songs about sex like Daniel Olsen said. Outside Center 08:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC) note edit was because I spelt wrong.
- Comment Adding that page to this AfD since it's basically the same thing. (The talk page contains a rather poignant comment from NawlinWiki.) Danny Lilithborne 08:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- DeleteFocus of this list is too broad to be of any meaning, IMHO. Over half of the songs in the top 40 in every western country for the last 20 years would have been about sex in some way? It would almost make more sense to have a list of "Songs not about sex"...Tompee 08:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- You could say the same thing about List of songs about criminals or List of songs about money —Preceding unsigned comment added by Outside Center (talk • contribs)
- No, you couldn't. Really, you couldn't. Probably the only thing there are more songs about than sex is love. And arguably they're not that different. Danny Lilithborne 08:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- How can you claim that? Many songs contain both, especially rap which can contain all three. The List of songs about money is just as broad. I don't particularly care for this list or any other list of songs about something, but if your going to have them you might as well have the most popular ones. Outside Center 08:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- List of songs about money is maintainable given that it is focused on songs specifically about money, and doesn't just mention every rap song where the rapper happens to mention his bank account. Personally, however, I'm against any list of songs on Wikipedia without a focused verifiable subject; I just don't have the werewithal to nominate them all. Danny Lilithborne 20:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- How can you claim that? Many songs contain both, especially rap which can contain all three. The List of songs about money is just as broad. I don't particularly care for this list or any other list of songs about something, but if your going to have them you might as well have the most popular ones. Outside Center 08:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- No, you couldn't. Really, you couldn't. Probably the only thing there are more songs about than sex is love. And arguably they're not that different. Danny Lilithborne 08:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- You could say the same thing about List of songs about criminals or List of songs about money —Preceding unsigned comment added by Outside Center (talk • contribs)
- Delete waaaaaaaaaay too many songs fitting this description, as I said to someone who suggested this at WP:AFC. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 08:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. Completely unmanageable. See comments I made for List of Songs about Jesus. Regards, --E Asterion u talking to me? 12:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Agreed that its completely unmanageable. And the majority of songs in popular culture today reference sex - imo, this is just a random collection of information that doesn't serve any real purpose. See: WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information Rimmers 17:42, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete — Way too many list of songs about ____. We should consider deleting criminals and money too. JChap2007 19:30, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete sex is a human desire and thousands of songs have been written, or could be interpreted to be, pertaining to sex. Unmanagable and unverifiable. will381796 22:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete, as all songs are basically about sex, even "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious". Well-known fact. Hornplease 05:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Tuluvas2 16:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC) I am saying delete because this is such a subjective topic in a way. First of all different cultures would probably consider different things to consist of "sex". Would everyone world wide accept oral sex as being sex? (Obviously not just look at the JAMA from when Clinton was president). Also some songs may indirectly refer to sex but they do not directly refer to sex. Someone can talk about sex indirectly in a song and never mention the word sex or anything related to sex. What subjective stand-point do we base the meaning of the songs from? Do we include songs that we perceive as being related to sex that others will not perceive as being related to sex? From the perceptions of some people songs which talk about things not related to sex may be subliminally refering to sex, and to other people songs which subliminally refer to sex with out mentioning it may not appear to be about sex. Wikipedia should be for objective information and NPOV and I see that this list is going to automatically be at least partially point of view. (Someones point of veiw may be that the candy shop is actually a candy shop, even though my point of veiw is that the song is obviously refering to sex). But does my point of veiw automatically over rule someone elses perception? I guess we could ask the artist who makes the song what the song was actually about? Or we could make a list of songs that have the potential to be perceived as about sex? It is just a mess really, and what I have just said may not make any sense, but I vote for delete.
- So the list "Songs about Drugs" is ok, but a similar list of "songs" is not? Drugs are just as taboo, illicit, and controversial as sex, but the "Songs about Drugs" list isn't being considered for deletion. Also, as far as I can tell, the two lists have the same format. So I ask- why the double standard?
- Tuluvas2 14:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC) I agree with the above poster that we should hold the standard to all lists similar to this one. The topic of the list had no reason in my desicion to vote for deletion. Are there any standards on how the Wikipedia community has dealt with lists such as this one? I don't want to go against the standards with my vote and if someone could give me a link to an article/rule about lists that could be interpreted to say this list should stay I would quickly change my vote based on the new evidence. However if nobody can, I will keep my vote delete for this list and advocate that we delete all similar lists. We must be equal and fair and if one list is removed for a reason all other lists that meet that reason should be removed. But like I mentioned before, if someone gives a link to a standard/rule about lists such as these on wikipedia that can be interpreted to say this list should stay, then I will change my vote to keep and advocate that we keep all other lists like this.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
