Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sommer Isdale

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Most keep arguments center around crystal ballery: "sources will increase as pageant draws near." — Ocatecir^T 07:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sommer Isdale

Sommer Isdale (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Minor state-level beauty-pageant winner. No other accomplishments, and only hometown news sources announcing that a local girl has won the state pageant. Part of an assembly line of 49 nearly identical "biographies" created by PageantUpdater (talk · contribs), which only vary in the trivial personal details or don't even include 3rd-party references at all. PROD tag added, but removed by User:PageantUpdater with the summary Miss Teen USA state titleholders are not "minor" and she will be competing at Miss Teen USA, a nationally televised show. To which I say: yah, they're minor and being one of 51 contestants on a single TV program is straining hard to argue for notability -- not mention if she really were notable, references outside of local papers would be present. For the full list, see here: {{Miss Teen USA 2007 delegates}}. Calton | Talk 01:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete - for now, can be recreated if and when the subject becomes notable due to Miss Teen USA media coverage. --Javit 01:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Miss Teen USA state level winners are pretty notable, and the article has several references. Edison 03:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
• Weak delete See my comments at the discussion above, but if this article is kept, I think saying she was involved as a three-month old in a school shooting is a bit misleading. I'd say that'd need to be rewritten to just indicate she was present. FrozenPurpleCube 04:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment huh? It wasn't a school shooting. Read the article on the massacre. PageantUpdater User Talk Review me! 06:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, was thinking of something else, however, whether it was at a school or a cafeteria, saying she was involved is a bit much. I'd write it differently. FrozenPurpleCube 14:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• Keep pasting here what I wrote elsewhere... They are notable because they won a state title... in most cases against tough competition (up to 100 other girls, in some cases)... and in some cases having previously won a local title in order to gain entry to state). The hold their title for a year, making appearances and doing charitable work etc, as a representative of their community and state. Competing in the Miss Teen USA pageant is just a part of why they are notable. It also must be considered that the press coverage of these girls will certainly increase around the time of the pageant (so why not hold off until then?). PageantUpdater User Talk Review me! 06:02, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

They are notable because they won a state title A meaningless distinction. What makes a "state title" here the slightest bit meaningful?

..in most cases against tough competition - what constitutes "tough competition" (are there obstacle courses involved?) and what is the slightest relevance of the "tough competition" to the actual notability to begin with? State-level spelling bees and 4-H competitions can also be described as "state titles" and "tough competition" -- probably more so than a minor beauty pageant -- but practically no one can credibly argue that the Florida state spelling bee champ deserves an Wikipedia biography for that alone, neither should these contestants.

It also must be considered that the press coverage of these girls will certainly increase around the time of the pageant - Again, not an actual argument, an article of faith aka the ol' crystal ball. Pretty much every garage band and college drinking game that shows up on AFD seems to take a stab at this one. --Calton | Talk 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

• Keep: As contestants in a nationally televised pageant, these are obviously notable--I say "these', as there are several AFDs related to this, and don't feel like typing the same comment over and over again. Jeffpw 07:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• That's a strange new meaning of the word "obviously" I was previously aware of. You mean like, say, all the 51st through 4th-place winners on American Idol, perhaps? --Calton | Talk 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Unnotable participant in an unnotable activity. BTLizard 09:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• """Comment""": BTLizard, you stated your opinion, which is nice, but gave no reasoning to back it up. Please explain why this delegate and this event are non-notable. Otherwise, it is hard for me to take your vote seriously. This is a repost of a comment at another AFD discussion where BLT made the same comment: Comment: BTLizard, did you actually taken the time to familiarize yourself with this t\opic before you made your comments? It doesn't seem like it. If you had, you'd realize that the Miss Teen USA pageant is a substrate of the Miss Universe organization, which also oversees the Miss USA pageant and the Miss Universe pageant. To call Miss Teen USA unnotable (sic) would be to imply the same for all pageant delegates, something clearly untrue, given both the viewership for these pageants (up to 1 billion worldwide) and the controversy the pageants themselves draw from a variety of individuals. Simply participating in the event is notable...and quite honorable, if you ask me. Jeffpw 11:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• False argument: Miss Teen USA is not up for deletion, the 49 distinctly minor and otherwise undistinguished participants are. --Calton | Talk 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails WP:BIO. Maybe after winning, she'll become something notable -- but until then, she's just a pretty face with little distinction in a very crowded and competitive field. Notability is not contagious or inductive -- just "participating" in something notable does not make the participant notable. -- Mikeblas 15:46, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete on the principle that local coverage of local events is not encyclopedic notability, no matter how many home-town newspaper articles there are. I would accept significant coverage in regional papers, or any coverage in national media. (I'm referring to subjects in general, including this one).

She does not get additional notability from having not been shot in the massacre reported. I was one of those arguing for individual notability for each of the VPI victims, but I never suggested notability for each of the thousands of other students. DGG 00:17, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I know I'm being overly defensive, but it must be noted that regional and national coverage will increase markedly around the time of the pageant (August). I think it would be best to hold these off until after then, but of course that's not my call. PageantUpdater User Talk Review me! 01:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect all state delegates to a single list article. While obviously these aren't fictional characters, I think looking to WP:FICT is instructive. It suggests merging into a single list article until such time as there is sufficient notability for any particular entry to be spun off into an individual article. For the most part the information about each of these delegates is going to be the same and people interested in one are likely to have some level of interest in all of them. Otto4711 16:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - I look to WP:BIO here rather than WP:FICT, since these are in fact real people. I think that these individuals most closely fall under the criteria for athletes which is basically interpreted as any player who has ever played in a MLB or NFL or NBA or NHL game or ever raced in a NASCAR race or the Indy 500 or any race in F1, or CART or Indy series, etc. is notable for inclusion. I would say that competing in a national pageant meets the same standard. Therefore, contestants in state and local pageants would not be notable, but the state winners would be notable because they complete in the national pageant. Many of these people also become more notable after the pageants as they move on to acting roles, etc. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 14:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

• That last sentence is a pure crystal-ball article of faith. IF they become famous, obviously they rate an article, but not before actually become famous. And given that they're not athletes, using a narrow and legalistic interpretation of the standards specific to athletes to as reasoning here is more than a little flimsy. --Calton | Talk 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.