Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Snow Bowl (Green Bay)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, leaning towards keep due to reliable sources being provided. Wizardman 14:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Snow Bowl (Green Bay)

Snow Bowl (Green Bay) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Just a regular season game played in the snow where nothing notable happened. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bole2 (talk • contribs)

Procedurally finishing nom for Bole2 (talk · contribs); apparently Twinkle messed up. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 17:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
What are the criteria for deletion? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I've asked the original nom what their criteria are. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 17:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Non notable game, football is played in the snow quite regularly. Merge info into Green Bay Packers website if anything is important. AlbinoFerret (talk) 17:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Nothing that makes this game individually notable; football's played in snow all the time (especially in Green Bay). Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 17:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep Only a small handful (< 5) of regular season Green Bay Packers games should have their own article. This is one of them. I live relatively near to Green Bay, and this one is extremely memorable despite the national media's incorrect characterization that many Green Bay football games have snow. The snowfall rate had to have been incredible if 2/3 of Green Bay's fans didn't go. It's arguably the teams third most famous game behind the Ice Bowl and 4th and 26. It was notable enough to be named, which is extremely rare. Royalbroil 18:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Where is the proof that this game was named? I know of this game but have heard it refered to as the Snow Bowl. Buc (talk) 19:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Seriously, Buc? Games arent "named" by any official organization, they are just referred to as such for a while and then become known by that name. See Instant Replay Game, Fog Bowl, Ice Bowl, etc. All of the sources provided to you refer to it as the "Snow Bowl." No offense, but this nom is a joke. I suggest you withdraw it, as notability has been shown. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk contribs) 20:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
The links you provided were for an article section (sounds like a good idea for this article) an un-referenced article and a disambiguation page. Buc (talk) 16:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, my AfD skills are rusty - the articles that I start must be too solid because I don't participate here much. I realize that talk is cheap and that I need to backup my claims with some links.
Using google with the search terms "snow bowl" "green Bay" 1985 , I come up with the following in the first 20 results: this article, from a reliable source, with first hand quotes (plus it refers to the Wikipedia article!); a brief mention on how it impacted Carreker's career; this article uses the game as an example of the "Frozen Tundra", this author of the greatest games in team history mentions it with 2 other games. There should be ample information to expand this article. Royalbroil 19:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - good stuff here at the AFD but the article needs further citation so could someone work on that please? Also, the title of the article is completely obscure to non-experts so that'll need to change too. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment while you guys fight amongst yourselves, I'd reiterate that you need to (a) rename this (a non expert would never find this, what does (Green Bay) mean to someone?) and (b) add more citations to article. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
      • See WP:DAB on why it is named Snow Bowl (Green Bay). There are multiple meanings of the term Snow Bowl, so disambiguation was needed. Royalbroil 22:01, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Yeah, yeah, but (Green Bay) means nothing to most people. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
          • How bout Snow Bowl (1985) or Snow Bowl (Green Bay Packers)? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
            • I think either name is better than the current... (should it survive...!) The Rambling Man (talk) 22:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
              • As you can see I moved it to Snow Bowl (1985). How does this affect the deletion process, does this page need to be moved too? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) 22:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
                • This has got me thinking. "Snow Bowl" is clearly not an original title, it's a nickname really, is a nickname really a good title for an article? There are a lot of other articles on here with the same problem, I will look into this further once this nomination is over. Buc (talk) 18:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep Completely notable game, very few NFL games actually have a nickname. Also, as posted above this article has been cited by a news source!!! Which means that it is being used as a reference, which should override everything here. I agree it needs some work, and I will try to work on it. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) 19:41, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge to the Packers article, or to Alphonso Carreker's article. Although it's apparently a fond memory from 20 years ago, this game is among the least notable of the many "Snow Bowls" that have been played in NFL history. From what I can tell, Lee Remmell reminisced about it in a 2005 article on the packers.com website as part of a story about great Packers-Bucs games. The article itself doesn't show anything special about the game, and it doesn't seem to have . Given that it was a matchup between the 5-7 Packers and the 2-10 Bucs, it appears to have been the highlight of an otherwise dismal season for the Pack. Mandsford (talk) 20:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
The notability is not from the game itself, nor is it directly from the snow itself. It is the fact that 30000 fans who had tickets to the game did not show up, the most in Packers history (and if I am not mistaken, the most in the NFL). This is because of the huge amount of snow that Green Bay received (which although is common in Green Bay, it is not common to get huge blizzards on gameday during the regular season). Also, the fact that the Wikipedia article is being used by a media source shows that it is useful to our readers, which is the most important fact we need to remember here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) 20:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh and this is only one of two NFL games known as the Snow Bowl, so I dont get the all the Snow Bowl games played comment. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) 20:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I imagine you're thinking about the 2002 Raiders-Patriots playoff, but there have been other games that someone has dubbed "The Snow Bowl", such as the 1948 NFL championship, two recent games (Bills-Browns and Packers-Seahawks), and a 1984 game when the Packers played at Denver. It's not that unusual a term. Mandsford (talk) 00:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Ummmmm ok, well then yeah Id say a lot more games have been dubbed "A Snow Bowl," but that is not what I am talking about. I'm talking about games that are termed as the Snow Bowl and have received significant coverage being called by that name. Comparing games, and saying "Jeez this is a "Snow Bowl" is a lot different from saying a game is "the Snow Bowl." I know for a fact that the Packers-Seahawks game was only mentioned as a Snow Bowl and had a lot to do with the fact that there were comparisons with the game we are actually talking about (again showing how this is notable). Do you at least see why this game is notable (what I explained up there, that the game is more notable for the effects of the snow, and not so much the snow itself). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) 02:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge with 1985 Green Bay_Packers season I'm not sure if I can do this having nominated it to be deleted but this does sound like a better idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bole2 (talk • contribs)
    • You are permitted to change to merge. This discussion is taking place to decide the future of the content in this article. Note that User:Bole2 signs as "Buc". Royalbroil 18:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep Hmm. I think it passes WP:N, seems fine to me. RC-0722 247.5/1 21:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.