Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sixth pillar of Islam

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. As pointed out by many editors below, the fact that a concept does not have mainstream support does not, in itself, demonstrate a lack of notability. Articles with NPOV problems should be fixed, not deleted. --Selket ^Talk 14:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sixth pillar of Islam

Sixth pillar of Islam (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This is not a main-stream concept. There is no reason to create article using couple of references for something that does not exist. It is against WP:NPOV and WP:Undue weight. A. L. M. 16:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep: Seems like a notable concept for Shia Islam and 15-20% of the Muslim population is Shia. You're incorrect in saying that this concept does not exist. Obviously, Shites believe in it and it exists for them. I wouldnt nominate Allah for deletion because I dont believe he exists. I would only nominate something e.g. if its not notable enough. Other pillars of Islam have their own articles too, e.g.:
  • Seven Pillars of Islam (Ismaili)
  • Walayah (Ismaili and Druze pillar)
  • Seven Pillars of Islam (Druze)

Some Kharijite groups also support the existence of a sixth pillar. You should bring this up on the Talk page of that article before AfD'ing it. What partly makes it notable is that this is one of the differences between Sunni Islam and other types of Islam.--Matt57 ^{(talk•contribs)} 17:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Do you have any have source which says that Shia consider it as Sixth pillar of Islam ? Or just because you think it is? --- A. L. M. 17:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Note: It does not represent Shia main steam concept. If article name could be changed Sixth Pillar of Islam (Kharijites) then we could keep it otherwise it is wrong to present it as general Muslim concept and misguide people. --- A. L. M. 17:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per name change : I have renamed it to Sixth Pillar of Islam (Kharijites) and now we could keep it. I withdrew my AFD as long as it name remain same. --- A. L. M. 17:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Still Keep.Alright I support the rename as its related to the Kharjites only. You're right, my assumption about the Shias was incorrect, sorry. --Matt57 ^{(talk•contribs)} 17:28, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep As the article point out notable Islamic individuals and organizations such as Abd al-Salam Farag and Takfir wal-Hijra consider Jihad to be the sixth pillar of Islam. -- Karl Meier 20:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep This is obvious becoming a dispute among different islamic groups, and it is fortunately not the province of WP to decide theology. If the term is used by a substantial community it is N, and everyone seems to admit as much. The scope of the article and clarification of the meaning are editing questions. DGG 20:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep It doesn't matter if it is mainstream or not - it is commonly discussed. This is something that Christian apologists often refer to, by the way. StAnselm 23:27, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Nomination is self-contradictory saying article is about 'something that does not exist' and 'not a main-stream concept'. Neither is an acceptable reason for deletion. Take a look a blood libel for comparison - just because a particular practice does not exist (and even the nominator later admits Kharjites believe in the Sixth pillar) does not mean it not a suitable subject for an article. Edward321 00:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

  Comment It says Islam in its heading. That implies 1.4 billion people. Which is wrong. --- A. L. M. 09:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

  Comment So you are saying the Khajarites are not Muslims? Do they believe they are Muslims? Edward321 23:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

  Comment I do not know what is Khajarites. Hence even if they are Muslim they are so less in number that me being a Muslim do not know them. Imposing their believe on all of us is pity. --- A. L. M. 12:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

  Comment This is not imposing the belief on all Muslims, the article specifically says some and mentions those some specifically. Edward321 13:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

  Comment Check this [1], I do not feel that good. The title itself "Sixth pillar of Islam" is wrong. This could stay but need to be renamed. --- A. L. M. 14:03, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep very important pillar of Islam--Sefringle 18:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
• Comment the title should not be "Sixth pillar of Islam" as that is not a notable term. It only receives 877 Google hits[[2]]. This article should not really exist, but if it has to it should be under the title of Sixth Pillar of Islam (Kharijites). IP198 22:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment and Googling "Sixth pillar" plus "Islam" yields 13,500 hits [3]. Edward321 23:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete actually Googling "Sixth pillar" plus "Islam" only shows 697 results [4]. it states that "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 697 already displayed." This shows that the term is not very common. Most of the articles are either blogs or editorials in right wing papers. This article violates Wikipedia:No original research. The first non Wikipedia article in the google search [5] states

“

When Muslims read this, they will disagree, antagonistically reminding us that there are five pillars of Islam but they are not telling the truth. Many Americans are familiar with the Five Pillars; however, no one is talking about the Sixth Pillar of Islam because of political correctness. You have only read about it here!

”

The keywords are "You have only read about it here!"IP198 01:04, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Actually if one follows your google link [6], that yields 13,300 hits, not the 697 you claim. Please do not misrepresent things. Edward321 13:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Scroll to the bottom and it says

“

In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 688 already displayed.

”

IP198 15:04, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. For contrast "Fifth pillar" + "Islam yields" 726 results [7]. Should we thus conclude the Fifth pillar is non-notable and delete it from Wikipedia? Edward321 15:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

  Comment Search about "Five pillars of Islam" [8]. It gives "196,000" returns. You will not find much if you start searching "first pillar" second pillar etc. Because they come together in book instead of each individuals. --- 16:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep I do not see the issue the nom brought up, other people keeping have described my position well. ^High_InBC^{(Need help? Ask me)} 13:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.