Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Siberian nationalism

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, it seems. Daniel→♦ 10:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Siberian nationalism

Siberian nationalism (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

100% original research and unreferenced specuations. No reliable traces in google for "siberian nation" or nationalism. `'Míkka 16:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Article is not about "Siberian nation" but about "Siberian nationalism".--MariusM 11:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - Article was created on July 31st, seems to be in good faith. I suspect your nomination may be motivated by a desire to suppress the Siberian Nationalist movement, tiny though it might be. Online refs may be limited by Putin's repressive gov't. Speciate 16:42, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
  • So there cannot be garbage created on 31sts? And how much about this movement you have read? And Putin repressing internet, especially in America, is kinda thick conspiracy theory. `'Míkka 16:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Don't worry, Siberia is not going to become independent anytime soon; China is scary. Speciate 17:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Seems like a promising article, although it obviously needs more work. On the basis of a quick Google search, I believe there are references available (several books, and a couple of papers). Mikka, I think Speciate's point was that the article was only created recently, and we might like to give it a little time. Is there a way to flag this article for potential interested editors? kateshortforbob 17:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep but it needs source citation pronto. Googling "Siberian separatism" finds enough details that check out to show it's not OR. Viktor Pepelyayev and the short-lived Siberian government in the civil war are also worth mentioning: see Provisional Government of Autonomous Siberia. Gordonofcartoon 12:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep and add sources per Gordonofcartoon. It's a real phenomenon, noteworthy, but little known. In fact there have been and are several trans-Ural separatist movements that are worthy of further encyclopedic attention. Askari Mark (Talk) 18:21, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep --PEAR (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep: someone has deleted and banned a link to a Siberian nationalist forum. --I have a dream81119
• Keep It's only been up for a week; author needs to learn a little more on how to display sources, but I can't see why this wouldn't be any less of a secessionist movement than Chechnya. Mandsford 21:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, Siberian nationalism seems to be a notable phenomenon. Article is poor but can be improved (or stubbed, removing unsourced speculations) Alex Bakharev 22:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, but rewrite. The phenomenon do exist and a quick search through Google Books do yield results. However, the term "Siberian nation" is bogus and the article is inaccurate in that the Siberian movement is not entirely pro-independence. Many Siberian nationalists/regionalists advocate autonomy within the Russian Federation. See Nation-Building and Common Values in Russia by Pål Kolstø, Helge Blakkisrud. ISBN; also Nations Without States: A Historical Dictionary of Contemporary National Movements by James B Minahan. ISBN. --Kober<sup>Talk</sup> 09:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. While I don't believe a Siberian language exist and probabily this movement has only a minority support from the inhabitants of Siberia, it is notable.--MariusM 11:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Probably needs more sources though. Buckshot06 18:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
  • How about any sources, at all? Especially some that back up the notability of this topic? Because I sure can't find any, and this article isn't sourced at all. Delete and chide people for assuming bad faith on the part of the nom. --Haemo 21:52, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: remove the part about Yaroslav Zolotaryov et al. The article about his "Siberian language" was deleted and if he didn't convince even WP that his artificial language is notable then it is unlikely to present himself as notable nationalist. The category Category:Siberian nationalism should be deleted. Pavel Vozenilek 22:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Tamokk 05:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, no sign of notability. Not a single reference to prove the author's claim. --Irpen 06:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
• What about basic Wikipedia policies like WP:V? There must be references. If none can be found and cited, this article just cannot exist. Conscious 11:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • The reference sourches are being deleted by this user Mikkalai because of a personal grudge he has with the author of this page. Please make sure he does not delete any references, links or the chapter about non-european nationalism.The proof is right here deleted references--I have a dream81119
    • The deleteed sources speak of many things but not about the article says. `'Míkka 21:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
      • You deleted links to books and articles about the political climate in russia.

Let me analyse the references: [1]: Right when you start reading this article it says: To a great extent Kennan owed his change of opinion to the influence of the Siberian patriot, Nicholas Mikhailovich Iadrintsev (1842–1894), and his wide circle of friends and acquaintances, both inside and outside of Siberia. Aparently George Kennan was an American reporter who was influenced by a siberian patriot. Then it goes on about Tsarist Russia's role in siberia; it says for example. “...Russia is among States the monster criminal of the nineteenth century. There are no evidences in Siberia or elsewhere that can be legitimately, or even decently, adduced to indicate before Americans either the humanity or the justice of that empire. this pertains to the colonialist role tsarist russia took when expanding into Siberia. Even though serfdom had ended, to Armstrong and others, the Russian Empire continued to deserve the approbation of civilized people because of its policy of imprisoning and abusing large numbers of its people in Siberia, for actions which would not be illegal in democratic societies Here we see past acts of agression and violation against siberian people who where ethnically slavic.

This [2] is a review of a book written by a well respected publishing house called Cornell Universite Press. I can't quote directly from the book because i have to go to the library in Rotterdam to get it, but the description of the book has the lines. This story includes Genghis Khan, who sent the Mongols warring into Russia; Ivan the Terrible, who conquered Siberia for Russia; Peter the Great, who supported scientific expeditions and mining enterprises; and Mikhail Gorbachev, whose glasnost policy prompted a new sense of ‘Siberian’ nationalism. It is also the story of millions of souls who themselves were conquered by Siberia. . . . Vast riches and great misery, often intertwined, mark this region.”—The Wall Street Journal I don't think we have to doubt the honesty of this website.

Again; these two are books. [3], [4] Both mention siberian nationalism, but i have to get a list of references about this book in order to prove that to someone; who might not actually live in an english speaking nation or near one. But if you do; you can ask me what chapter to look.

[5] this is a rather large balkan website. I can't find any russian sites about siberian nationalism, because i can't read russian well enough and neither do most people here. But you can help me with that.

Again this article [[6]] speaks for itself with keywords like secession movements, internal interethnic relations and various national bids for sovereignty. Despite similarities, due to legacies of Soviet nationality policies and hierarchical structuring of ethnically-based regions, each case within the Russian Federation requires description and analysis in its own historical and cultural context. Certain strategic cases, for example that of the Sakha Republic (Yakutia) of Eastern Siberia (the Russian 'Far East'), can help to reveal the messiness and non-inevitability of secession movements. A social anthropological approach is taken here, to demonstrate why the Sakha Republic (Yakutia) case is particularly significant, how its internal interethnic relations have developed, and what this case demonstrates for larger issues of Russian federation survival. Rather than assuming that Russia is an analogue of the Soviet Union, or that Russia's recent nationality politics consistently resemble the imperial polarising style of past multi-ethnic empires, judgement is suspended.(1) We argue that various national bids for sovereignty or even full independence have been intertwined in the centre-periphery dynamic. Claimed injustices must be reviewed, indigenous leaders heard, and inter-republic relations assessed before generalisations can be made about whether a given Russian federal republic is likely to become a secessionist 'nationalist' domino or the site of interethnic conflagration. Also, i am not going to quote from this article again, because its very long and it talks about a lot of political and economic policies of Russia, and i have to read for 20 minutes before i get to another good quote. What the article describes is ofcourse very positive news and should be placed in the article about siberian nationalism.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.