Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shuckin' and jivin'

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, subjects of scholarly articles and books are very notable. --- Deville (Talk) 23:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shuckin' and jivin'

del WP:NOT, not a dictionary, not a slang guide. Dubious notability of the phrase. Mukadderat 02:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per WINAD --Shirahadasha 04:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator. JIP | Talk 06:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Arnzy (talk • contribs) 06:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Wikipedia isn't a dictionary. Also, I have never heard this term before, and I live in the South. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 07:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I think the phrase itself is fairly notable. Google search on "shuckin and jivin" yields 12,000 hits, and I didn't even try the full forms in -ing. This text strikes me as a fair enough beginning. If not kept, merge with jive. May want to check out Shuckin' and Jivin': Folklore from Contemporary Black Americans by Darryl Cumber Dance (1981, Indiana University, ISBN 0-25320-265-5). - Smerdis of Tlön 13:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Smerdis. It's a widely-used term and an interesting part of African American culture. I'm pretty sure this could be expanded by someone knowledgable with the subject. FWIW, there was also a 1972 LP called Shuckin' 'N Jivin'". Zagalejo 14:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete it's a dicdef at best; urban dictionary fare at worst. Eusebeus 22:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep This is an important concept in American cultural history, not a new slang term. Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi
• Delete, if this is a part of American cultural history, it's a part I would jump at the opportunity to exclude as dictionary-esque. Not encyclopedic at all, and very close on notability. That adds up to a good old fashioned delete.-Kmaguir1 09:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm in Memphis, and like Cordesat, I've never come upon this.

This is not a dictionary term; it is a concept within African-American culture indicating a certain kind of bravado. It is not a current slang term; thus you probably haven't heard it used. Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi

"I haven't heard of it" is not a criterion for deletion. No one is familiar with every subject on this encyclopedia. Zagalejo 21:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - the article as it currently stands is little more than a dicdef. There ar no sources provided. If it is a part of American cultural history, this article does not appear to properly document it. -- Whpq 20:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I found this slightly different definition of "Shucking and jiving" in a an article available on JSTOR. It might be helpful in determining whether this page can be expanded beyond a dicdef.

It reads as follows: "Shucking, shucking it, shucking and jiving, S-ing, and J-ing are all terms that refer to the verbal performances of blacks when they interact with the Man, the establishment, or any authority figure. These terms describe the forms of speech and physical movements that are necessary to maintain a particular guise in a confrontation with an authority figure." ("Black Rhetorical Patterns and the Teaching of Composition", by Michael D. Linn. College Composition and Communication Vol. 26, No. 2. (May 1975), p 150).

Linn then gives an example, which is quoted from another source: "One black gang member was coming down the stairway from the club room with seven guns on him and encountered some policemen coming up the same stairs. If they stopped and frisked him, he and others would have been arrested. A paraphrase of his shuck follows: 'Man, I gotta get away from up there. There's gonna be some trouble and I don't want no part of it.' The shuck worked on the minds of the policemen. It anticipated their questions as to why he was leaving the clubroom and why he would be in such a hurry. He also gave them a reason for wanting to go up fast." (from Thomas Kochman, "Black American Speech Events and a Language Program for the Classroom". Functions of Language in the Classroom. ed. Courtney B. Cazden, et al. (New York: Teacher's College Press, 1972). p. 250.)

Personally, I think this subject has a lot of potential for expansion, as it seems to have sociological importance. There were at least 18 other references at JSTOR (excluding reviews of the book), and I would suspect that there are more sources available offline. So, what does everyone think? Zagalejo 21:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as it violates beucoup WP:NOTs. --Dennette 03:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I'd just like to remind everyone that we're discussing the subject, not the article itself. The article itself is inadequate, and seems to be full of errors, but that doesn't mean the subject isn't worth including. And I still think we should include it.

We have plenty of evidence that the term is used on a wide scale; it's appeared in several scholarly articles and in the title of a major book; it's not some new slang term; and it has enough sociological importance that it surely can be expanded beyond a dicdef by someone who's knowledgable about it. Zagalejo 13:59, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I've cleaned it up, to the best of my ability. Zagalejo 03:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• keep please the article is more than a definition and term is notable gets over 14,100 hits [1] Yuckfoo 08:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.