Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shigemi "Eddie" Hagihara

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus, keep. - Richardcavell 23:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• Update on 27 August - article is copyright violation (thanks to Dekimasu for the information). I have therefore removed most of the content. The article stays, however. - Richardcavell 12:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shigemi "Eddie" Hagihara

Aikido teacher - apparent vanity or bio with no special claim to notability. Dekimasu 06:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep: I think that being a 7th Dan and one of the founding fathers of American Aikido is probably sufficient claim to notability. --David Mestel^(Talk) 06:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I still think it is a vanity. Note the "quote" section with a reference to someone else saying something. It doesn't actually say "founding father of American Aikido." Dekimasu 07:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Less than 100 Google hits under Eddie Hagihara; none under Shigemi Hagihara. Dekimasu 08:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Be careful. There are a lot of people who like to claim that they founded American martial arts systems of various kinds. Consider Harley "SwiftDeer" Reagan (AfD discussion), for example. Do not take the article's sole word for things. Actually do the research and look for sources. Looking for sources is one of the primary tasks in an AFD discussion. Uncle G 09:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - I did find a number of sites that mentioned him as a teacher, and an interview which described him as one of the founders of the first NY Aikido group. I agree about the people who claim to have founded systems, though: see Christopher Nathan Geary, which I afd'ed a few days ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brianyoumans (talk • contribs) 2006-08-09 10:41:12
• Keep per David.Mestel. notable enough, but fails WP:NPOV, so I slapped an NPOV tag on it. Ohconfucius 14:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Fails WP:BIO for lacking multiple non-trivial third-party articles about him. There are a few forums and blogs that mention him, but nothing about him. Fails WP:V for unverifiable nature of claims. I don't mean that the claims don't exist, I mean they don't come from encyclopedic sources. Do we have multiple articles confirming anything here? Notability also questioned for having only 43 distinct Ghits for Eddie Shigemi +aikido. Tychocat 15:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete per nom. Fails Google, Fails WP:BIO. wikipediatrix 15:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Userfy. Personal vanity page, not notable enough on its own.  Cdcon  16:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: After trying various permutations on Google books, I managed to find one referring to what I believe to be Mr. Hagihara. It's a 2001 book called "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere",[1] and in the introduction the authors thank an "Edi Hagihara" for his assistance. I don't think it's enough of a source to hang an article on, and it doesn't confirm the claims made in the article, but it does at least suggest that there is a sensei by that name (notable or not). -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 21:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

One of the 3 Google hits on "Edi Hagihara" got me here [2]; much of the text of the article is lifted from this site. Dekimasu 22:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

In which case, given the lack of other sources, I'd say Delete as a copyvio, with no prejudice against re-creation from better sources, if they can be found. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 22:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Oh, c'mon. This guy isn't that hard to find on the net. Try this guy here, who trained with him and talks about his importance, or this interview, which mentions him as one of the founder of Aikido in the New York City area. Or here, where he is listed as part of an honorary committee of "senior instructors or members of the ECR who have made significant contributions to the growth and promulgation of Aikido". Or here, where he is mentioned in an interview with another old aikido fogey. I don't care greatly whether the article is kept or not, but Hagihara clearly exists and had some sort of small significance in the history of American aikido. The question is whether that notability is large enough for an article. --Brianyoumans 00:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I described it accurately - 100 Google hits, not all of which are this guy. I know he exists, but the text and pictures were lifted from his website (vanity), and the "old fogeys" who trained with him are pretty likely to call him important. See Tychocat's mention of WP:V above. Dekimasu 01:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Seems notable within the martial arts community, but the article is not verifiable. I would like to see some more templates applied to it, also. --Aguerriero (talk) 03:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.