Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sherman Bergman

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[edit] Sherman Bergman

The result was Keep. Non-admin closure. Normally I would recommend speedy keep, but there are too many improper AfD nominations from the same author. They should be listed in one AfD. Mrprada911 (talk) 08:59, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Sherman Bergman (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)
  • Delete. This article is about a non notable kickboxer created by a personal admirer with a biased and bogus information. It seems to be here since 2005 and is way overdue to be deleted. (Marty Rockatansky (talk) 08:54, 17 March 2008 (UTC))
Comment. There is no justification/nomination for this AfD, should speedy close unless it is provided.
    • Keep/comment. Can you provide examples of the #1 personal admiration, #2 biased information, #3 bogus information? The amount of references in the article now would lend me to believe there is inherent notability here, so the onus is on you to disprove the massive comment below. Also, would you be willing to answer why you have nominated so many kickboxing articles for deletion at this time? I am sure there is a good reaosn, but it would help provide context. Mrprada911 (talk) 07:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. This Article Should Not Be Deleted. March 17, 2008: First off I totally disagree with the reasons that this article should be deleted. Let me address the questions stated here by Mr. Rockatansky.

1.) He says that Sherman Bergman is a "non-notable" kickboxer. How does he come to this conclusion: Clearly Bergman was not a world champion, but that doesn't make him "non-notable". To begin, Bergman was considered "One of The Best new fighters (Kickboxers) on his way to the top". This is a direct quoate from OFFICIAL KARATE writer Barry Harrell in the November 1984 Issue in the Southern Exposure Column. Bergman's career has been highlighted in The Miami Herald Newspaper (He has appeared in this paper approx. 40 times & the Herald is not a rinky dink newsletter). Bergman's career has also been written about in Official Karate Magazine, Black Belt Magazine, News For You Newspaper, The Trendsetter Newspaper, and EDWORKS Newspaper. He also appeared in South American Newspapers: Fundacao Brasil & Argentina Hoy. His fight with Frank MaHarris was reported on television, and he appeared on WLRN Channel 17 on South Florida television.In other words, would a "Non-Notable" kickboxer receive Local, National, and International Coverage, if he was a total nothing. I don't think so. This proves that Bergman was indeed a kickboxer of note & it's a fact (supported by newspaper, magazine, & T.V. reports) that he was noted for his impressive string of first round knockout victories. 2.) Biased? How is the article biase. Read it. It not once says that Bergman was the "greatest fighter", "The hardest puncher", or "The most feared fighter". It simple states the facts of his career. There are basically no adjectives before or after his name. 3.) Bogus Information! I'm sorry, but this entire article is supported with concrete facts supported by legit & highly respected sources. Examples: 1.) Official Karate Magazine (November 1985, page 14) printed the results of Bergman's 23 second knockout over Thailand's Morsak Muangsu. It's in the magazine & is not a figment of my imagination. This fight was also reported in an article by Johnny Diaz in the Miami Herald, and by Verna Lins Ferst in the Brazilian paper, Fundacao Brasil. Bergman's first round KO over Alejandro DasCola was printed in the Trendsetter, Vol.2, No.1 Sept/Oct.1989,page 5. In the report, DasCola is listed as 22-0. Bergman's 1988 comeback was highlighted in the Miami Herald. Bergman's 18 second KO over Wilver (Rio) Johnson & knockouts over Mario Wilfredos also appeared in the Miami Herald & Fundacao Brasil. Bergman's loss to Gary Daniels was printed in Miami Herald Sports Section in 1980. Also, Bergman's ring record is confirmed by newspaper & magazine articles: Examples: Official Karate Magazine: Nov.1985, Bergman was listed as 13-1 (13 first round knockouts. Miami Herald, Sept.29, 1988, Bergman was 14-1 (14 first round knockouts), Trendsetter 1989, Bergman was 18-1 (18 first round knockouts), Miami Herald, July 12, 1990, Bergman is listed as 19-1 (19 first round knockouts), Black Belt, Sept.1998, Bergman is 25-4 (25 knockouts),etc. etc. As far as anything I posted nothing was biased or bogus. Bergman's complete kickboxing record is open to debate. He is definetly 53-6 (53 knockouts). However, the STARSYSTEM had Bergman as 14-0 in 1983, while OFFICIAL KARATE had him 12-1 at the time. Some of his victories are clearly missing. Also, some of his fights were fought under Full_Contact rules & no kickboxing rules, so it's difficult to sometimes figure out if these fights should be counted in his over-all stats. For all of these reasons, I feel that this article, supported by a wealth of legit references & about a kickboxer known not only in South Florida, but Nationally, and interally as well, should not be delected. Thank you:DavidToma (talk) 03:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Regarding References

I'm going to state only facts here which I personally took countless hours to research. I can honestly say that every Reference listed for Sherman Bergman is 100% correct, and contrary to some negative statements, not bogus or fake. The Miami Herald References: If you go to MiamiHerald.com and search the archives from 1982 to present, you will find 95% of the references which I listed. However, only 4 articles begin with Sherman Bergman: 09/29/1988, Page 25: Sherman Bergman, 9/22/1991. Page 38:TEACHER GETS HIS KICKS IN CLASSROOM & RING by Johnny Diaz(Herald Writer), 7/12/1990, page 6: KICK-BOXER INSPIRES STUDENTS by Johnny Diaz(Herald Columnist), and 8/18/2002, Page28MB: ESOL STUDENTS PLACE IN KARATE CHAMPIONSHIPS, by Herald Staff. The other searches contain the articles I listed, but you have to access the entire article to read about Bergman. EVERY REFERENCE WHICH I POSTED IS & I REPEAT, 100% CORRECT & supported & backed-up by articles published in the Herald. However, 4 references I listed are not on the search archives, but I have the orginal articles from the Herald & would be happy to upload them to the picture files where anyone can view & read them. The Official Karate Magazine: Bergman appeared twice in Barry Harrell's column, SOUTHERN EXPOSURE in the magazine.in 1984 & 1985. Harrell wrote in 1984, "Sherman (Big Train) Bergman of Miami, seems to be one of the best new fighters on his way to the top". A year later in the same column, Harrell reports on Bergman's 23 second knockout over Thailand's Morsak Muangsu and writes, " Many people believe that Bergman has the power to beat Alvin "The Million Dollar Baby" Prouder". Official Karate Magazine can not be found in a google search regarding specific issues. However, I have the original magazines & again, would be more then happy to upload both articles. I THINK IT IS BAD TASTE TO COME OUT & SAY THE INFORMATION I POSTED IS A HOAX, BOGUS, or a FAKE, because it's not. Regarding the existence of Sherman Bergman and his Kickboxing Abilities: Sherman Bergman clearly exists. He started fighting in 1976 & fought as recently as 2004 (according to the Miami Herald. In an interview in Xuat Tinh Som (Tre Today), dated 12/31/2007, in a interview with Jean-Claude Van Damme, the Bergman fight in 1979 is listed. Google search Van-Damm4e & Bergman & countless results are shown, as is his fight with Gary Daniels (I have the original newspaper clipping of this fight). Regarding Bergman's weight. Bergman fought mostly as a welterweight & middleweight. However, at one point he bulked up to heavyweight. In 2004, he lost over 50 pounds due to a severe case of kidney stones & dropped down to the 140s & fought. Regarding his 3 knockouts in one day, this was a tournament & the results were printed in the Herald, "Bergman defeated three opponents". From 2002-2004, Bergman fought in 7 tournaments & in most of them defeated 2 or three opponents. As for the Argentines, these matches were fought against Argentines living in South Florida, these tournaments were not fought overseas. Each & every tournament was reported in the Herald & I have the original clippings. Is Sherman Bergman a notable kickboxer?: I believe he is. Fact: Only U.S. fighter to have fought Jean-Claude Van Damme. First U.S. opponent of Gary Daniels. Noted for his impressive string of first round knockouts. Again his knockout record is supported by newspaper & magazine reports. His out-of-ring charity efforts & work in the field of education. Check the net & there are a number of fan clubs, some with over a 1,000 members. Has appeared in Newspapers & magazines in Florida, The United States, and Internationally. Where Do I fit In?: I'm just a fan. Not a friend or relative. My article on him is not bogus, fake, or a hoax. I think it's in bad taste to attack someone who has worked so hard in creating a page which is supported by facts:DavidToma (talk) 21:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.