Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shadow Mountain Community Church
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. At this point, the keep arguments boil down to WP:NOTINHERITED. However, if non-trivial coverage in reliable secondary sources is produced, the article can be re-created using them. MastCell Talk 19:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Shadow Mountain Community Church
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Editing history shows that the page was originally entered as cruft. Fails WP:N Shadow Mountain Community Church is a religious institution located in the east county region of San Diego County, historically lacking in any "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." Nascentatheist 04:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Non-notable Corpx 05:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. This is the church that started San Diego Christian College, which in turn started the Institute for Creation Research, which means that it has played an important part in the history of American evangelicalism. StAnselm 07:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment I'm really not sure on this one. There aren't any set guidelines on how to assert notability as it relates to churches. WP:CHURCH was not adopted by the community and thus cannot apply to this article. It appears to me that both senior pastors are notable. Both have been prolific authors, Tim LaHaye wrote the Left Behind series. I'm not sure if their involvement in Shadow Mountain Community Church makes it notable. --Cyrus Andiron
12:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Christian Heritage College was founded by Tim LaHaye, pastor of Scott Memorial at the time. As a point of order, it should be noted that the church did not "start" the college - a person did. The same goes for the ICR, the evolution of which can be traced to Henry Morris's book, The Genesis Flood. The church, itself, does not meet the criteria for notability under (my interpretation of) Wikipedia standards, which is why I nominated it. It does not generate "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources...independent of the subject." That those affiliated with a certain church also founded or "started" a Christian college as well as a creationist "research" institution does not make the church, itself, notable. Nascentatheist 12:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment The history page at the college website notes that LaHaye's involvement was "under the sponsorship of the church", and the college originally met in the church building. StAnselm 13:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Granted, but with LaHaye being the senior pastor and given the structure of the church at the time, one can make lots of those kinds of claims. If LaHaye, as senior pastor, declared it, it was under the "sponsorship of the church." That's how those things worked. I recall it well. Again, the church didn't establish the college. LaHaye did. He directed it, established that the church would "sponsor" it. That makes LaHaye notable - not the building. I do understand your point, however, and it's a fair point if we disregard that churches don't found colleges, people do. Thank you for your input. Nascentatheist 14:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Who said anything about a building? A church isn't a building! I certainly see your point, though, and I would view this church as notable precisely because it is LaHaye's church. Yes, I know - WP:NOTINHERITED. But it makes me think that those sources are going to exist. StAnselm 14:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Granted, but with LaHaye being the senior pastor and given the structure of the church at the time, one can make lots of those kinds of claims. If LaHaye, as senior pastor, declared it, it was under the "sponsorship of the church." That's how those things worked. I recall it well. Again, the church didn't establish the college. LaHaye did. He directed it, established that the church would "sponsor" it. That makes LaHaye notable - not the building. I do understand your point, however, and it's a fair point if we disregard that churches don't found colleges, people do. Thank you for your input. Nascentatheist 14:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment The history page at the college website notes that LaHaye's involvement was "under the sponsorship of the church", and the college originally met in the church building. StAnselm 13:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Christian Heritage College was founded by Tim LaHaye, pastor of Scott Memorial at the time. As a point of order, it should be noted that the church did not "start" the college - a person did. The same goes for the ICR, the evolution of which can be traced to Henry Morris's book, The Genesis Flood. The church, itself, does not meet the criteria for notability under (my interpretation of) Wikipedia standards, which is why I nominated it. It does not generate "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources...independent of the subject." That those affiliated with a certain church also founded or "started" a Christian college as well as a creationist "research" institution does not make the church, itself, notable. Nascentatheist 12:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete per the explanation by Nascentatheist. --Cyrus Andiron 13:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- Speedy delete "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." ~ G1ggy! Reply | Powderfinger! 00:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
