Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saber's Beads

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saber's Beads

Neologism being promoted by the selfsame Saber; original research. Infrogmation 23:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete, a Geocities page is not a reliable source. Baily's beads, by contrast, cites NASA and a noted science museum as sources. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Likely conflict of interest, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saber (Musician).--Húsönd 23:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, self-promotion, citing own website. Claimed recently discovered, but if the effect discussed is real, it is likely to have another name as lunar observation has occurred for hundreds of years. --Dual Freq 00:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete -- per nom, and above. Ho-hum. Bubba hotep 00:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as original research. --Carnildo 01:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per above. --Kf4bdy talk contribs 03:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per all of the above. --Ginkgo100 talk · e@ 03:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment The first canonical mention of Saber's Beads made was by a Richard Kone from British Columbia ('Targets Not To Miss', Astronomy Sept 06). The national/global magazines Astronomy, Amateur Astronomy, and the Reflector (as well as moonsighting.com) all find the rarely observed phenomenon worthy of mention. Stephen Saber, an accredited observational astronomer and author http://www.geocities.com/saberscorpx/home.html http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/master/mastrwn.html, was the first to note the exceedingly thin limb's staggered brightness peaks' similarity to those seen during a total solar eclipse. This is not a promotional attempt, except to appreciably boost the search for very young/old crescents and encourage Lunar observing in general. It was others from the astro community that nominated the term in the first place. It is now becoming mainstream. WK should appreciate the entry at its inception. Thanks anyway. -User:Saberscorpx
  • Delete, This seems to be a way around Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saber (Musician), and appears to be either original research or a hoax. If the lunar effect really does exist, it's probably going to have another name anyway. SunStar Net 08:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep for now. I would normally be very dubious of anything self-promoted and self-named, but it appears that it indeed was published in Astronomy magazine, and that the name was given to it by someone else, recognizing that apparently Saber was the first to notice it. This can be seen by this discussion on the Astronomy.com forum[1]. This seems to be another independent source for this[2]. Ans this is the thread that started it all[3]. All we need is an outsider with access to Astronomy magazine to confirm that it is mentioned there, and I guess this then deserves an article. Fram 08:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. As SunStar says, if it existed in the past it should have another name. If it's a brand new phenonmenon it's gonna need more than this little article to explain it. Lindsay H. 13:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment: As far as I understand it (I'm no astronomer) it is quite hard to observe the Moon so close to it's New Moon phase, due to it being close to the Sun (visually). This would explain why it hasn't been noticed earlier (the phenomenon obviously has existed virtually forever, but no one noticed it before). And the Moon get's looked at at a lot, but normally not so close to New Moon, since that is the least interesting period to watch it (why look at a dark surface when you can see it much better one or two weeks later?). Having said all that, I don't really oppose a delete, but not for OR and geocities reasons, but due to lakc of more sources. It can well be argued that one source (Astronomy magazine), even though that is obviously an important one, is not enough to meet WP:V. Fram 13:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Merge into New moon, or else very weak delete until/unless more sources are found. The phenomenon is certainly real, and we should mention it somewhere. As for the name, Fram's links convince me that it's a legitimate neologism used by people other than its namesake, but I still feel we need more evidence that it's really catching on, and that it isn't just an indepently coined name for something with another, more established name. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 18:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment The article was not submitted without diligent research. A Virtual Moon Atlas software preview can be simulated between .75 and .95 / 29.25 and 29.45 (days) lunation with maximum penumbra. While the solar eclipse counterpart is initiated by direct sunlight through our moon's valleys, Saber's Beads are first detected by the earliest angular illumination of the mountains. How had this obvious and beautiful phase gone unmentioned for so long? There are at least three possibilities; timing, desire, and recognition. Virtual Moon Atlas software simulations show the best aesthetic window to be 18-22 hours on either side of New Moon. How many clear shots at this exact window does one get over, say, 5 years? Not many. Also, veterans in search of record/near-record thin crescents are often waiting for the challenge of something in the 10-16 hour range to test their skills. In addition, except for the celestial players involved, witnessing an eclipse and hunting a Lunar sliver are very different endeavors. The mindset during the separate events may simply preclude immediate recognition of this more subtle but unmistakably similar phenomenon. Our moon's rugged topography and constant libration will also vary the Beads' appearance, which is further enhanced by associated low-altitude scintillation.[4] In any case, it gives Lunar observers and imagers something new, challenging, and interesting to watch for. If anything, it should be linked to Lunar Phase, Moon, and Observational Astronomy.If the article remains, Mr. Saber will furnish more sources and images as they become available. Thank you. User: Saberscorpx
  • Delete, nothing in the above comment does anything to distinguish this from original research. To be clear, it's a cool phenomenon (if it exists, which I trust it does), but that's not enough to keep it around. AshleyMorton 14:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per the nominator. Yamaguchi先生 07:00, 1 November 2006
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.