Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Sugden

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete -- Samir धर्म 04:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

This close was overturned by DRV and relisted DRV log. Xoloz 15:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ryan Sugden

This fellow plays for Halifax Town A.F.C., a club in the 5th flight of English football, Conference National. Is WP a dumping ground? There are only a few 5th flight players around, but almost all 4th flight players have a bio.....Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 02:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete. I am not exactly sure about this. But I think a article for every athlete around the world is indeed too much. AQu01rius (User | Talk | Websites)  03:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. Vanity article. =Axlq 03:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. If this is akin to the baseball minor leagues, definitely delete. Needs to have a professional appearance at the highest level before he's entitled to an article. - CrazyRussian talk/email 03:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment In the context of English football/soccer, "levels 1-4 " are considered en masse to be "the highest level".... ChrisTheDude 08:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment on my comment And besides, see my point below about WP:BIO not specifying anything about "the highest level".... ChrisTheDude 08:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - this doesn't appear to be notable at all. —Khoikhoi 03:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete: non notable Mozzie 04:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Reluctant keep since he has played in a fully professional league with Oldham and others. Punkmorten 06:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Despite a handful of league appearances for Oldham, that still does not meet the "competing at highest level requirement". Change to Keep per ChrisTheDude. If playing for a League Two club meets consensus for notability in English football then change to keep. Catchpole 06:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep - WP:BIO doesn't say a sportsman must have competed at "the highest level", it says "Sportspeople/athletes/competitors who have played in a fully professional league". As this guy has played in The Football League, which is a fully professional league, then he fulfills that requirement.... ChrisTheDude 07:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - Unless it can be established he had a professional contract with Oldham, this player is not notable. Qwghlm 07:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Neutral I think the minor league baseball rationale is unsuitable, beacause I think there are quite a few minor league players that deserve their own article, especially in areas without pro teams. However, the article doesn't assert any claims of notability, and would need to be expanded before I made a call on it.--MonkBirdDuke 08:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - No-brainer - Has played in a proffesional league. Rubbish article though. -- MLD · T · C · @:  11:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete The soccerbase.com page linked says that he was at Oldham as a trainee. I think that moves him below the line for inclusion. -- Bpmullins 12:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Actually, no, it says he joined them as a trainee. He then proceeded to play 20 league matches, scoring 1 goal. Punkmorten 07:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - The Soccerbase link on his page states for Oldham 20+ times, so that establishes his claim to notability. I'd still like to delete him mind, I really don't think many people are going to look up a player who played for a Division 2 side 20 odd times then disappeared into the lower leagues. HornetMike 13:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, if we strictly followed WP:BIO on athletes, we would have millions of articles like this. Recury 14:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep. The Conference may be the 5th flight of the English league, but it is regularly reported in all national newspapers and on television. Therefore, I would think players within it are fairly notable. DWaterson 21:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - but do they ever mention the names of the players or do they just go 2-0. I looked up some newspapers and they only have the team score. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep he's played professional football therefor he qualifies. As for not strictly following WP:BIO on atheletes what is the point of having rule regs and guidelines if we're not going to follow them strictly?? You cant say on one hand this doesnt meet wiki:schools so lets delete and on the other, this does meet wiki:bio but lets delete anyway. Jcuk 23:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Normally I would agree with you about following guidelines, but I think WP:BIO is way off on this point and I'm not the only one who thinks so. That is why new (and stricter) notability guidelines for athletes are going through the proposal process as we speak. Recury 13:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
What is this proposal? If you are referring to the proposal Wikipedia:Notability (athletes) from a couple of months ago, it failed to reach anything remotely resembling consensus. Oldelpaso 10:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. I think players from the Conference probably meet notability criteria. Comparisons with baseball are almost certainly inaccurate and not particularly useful - British sport works on a completely different system. -- Necrothesp 01:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - I doubt a fully pro team plays in a stadium with 1000 seats with players who have full time day jobs. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. *drew 11:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep He has played in The Football League a notable league and the Confrerence is notable too. Kingjamie 09:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment that doesn't make him notable. My university and high school are on wikipedia - and I won some awards there - does that make me notable? No it doesn't. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. He had 5 starts for Oldham Athletic in the Football League in 3.5 years there so he scrapes in based on that. However, the Conference is not fully professional so anyone who has not played in the Football League fails WP:BIO. BlueValour 01:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete a number of starts you can count on your fingers does not constitute much of a professional career. Oldelpaso 10:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep 118 starts is an amount you can count on your fingers? Well, not everyone here is an octopuss, so we can't all quite count those on our fingers. And to the point, he is a proffessional footballer in a proffesional league, so he is worth notability. Mattythewhite 11:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
According to soccerbase he made 4 League starts for Oldham, plus one in the League Cup, and one "other" (presumably in the Football League Trophy), a total of six starts for a League club. The rest of his career has been at Conference level, and while that level has some professionals, on the whole it is a semi-pro league. Oldelpaso 11:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment I went to the bio of some other 4-5th league player and the bio says he has a day job as a plumber - so eveidnetly not full pro.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.