Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russian political jokes

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. --Coredesat 03:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Russian political jokes

Russian_political_jokes (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

This does not belong in an encyclopedia. As well, it is not notable, nor does it have reliable sources. Redflagflying 04:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

  • This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 14:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I don't see anything wrong with this article. It is properly sourced and seems very complete. I agree with Cubbi completely.Silver seren 14:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Having briefly gone through the article, I agree that as a part of Russian humour, and hence a significant part of Russian culture. Also, in Soviet Russia, the article keeps you!--Kylohk 14:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • keep, good article. SECProto 15:42, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Vat? Vat is zis anti-Яussian Afd supposed to mean? Vizdraw yourr nomination or ve'll crrush you vesterrn svines! No seriously, the article is good, a few more sources wouldn't hurt, but I don't see any major flaws in it. --Targeman 16:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. Reasonably sourced, notable concept. You can tell a lot about a culture from their jokes. JulesH 17:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Snowball keep, possible WP:POINT at work here. Article passes WP:RSand WP:N. Ten Pound Hammer • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps•Review?) 18:18, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep article cites sources, I can't see anything wrong with it. A few more wouldn't go amiss, but that's no reason to delete it. Hut 8.5 19:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I think a snowball is rolling down the Urals. This is hardly a "jokebook" article. What's considered humor is one of the most revealing aspects of a culture. I note that wikisource:ru has a category called "1001 политический анекдот" which, if I read Cyrillic right, is 1001 political anecdotes. Mandsford 00:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Mandsford 00:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

    • Heh, more like "1001 politichesky anekdot"!--Kylohk 01:03, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep There was a long tradition of anti communist jokes in the Soviet Union as they were one of the few ways the population had of resisting the dismal tyranny the nominator seems so strangely fond of. The phenomenon has been discussed widely in third party sources. Nick mallory 00:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
  • I think a lot of users should research 'anti-communism.' If a citizen of the Soviet Union made a joke about the socialist state or its workings, it was not an 'anti-communist joke'. Anti-communism is a particular political trend/tendency of the McCarthyite variety. If you're serious about NPOV, it goes both ways. Also, could one of you that voted to keep please should me an entry in another encyclopedia anywhere on earth that has an entry like this? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a joke poke or collection of hand-me-down anecdotes and stories. Redflagflying 08:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. Reducing all anti-Communism to its most paranoid extreme - McCarthyism - is very myopic, if I understood your statement correctly. Oh wait, "red flag flying", that pretty much explains your comment. I'd recommend Gulag and Cultural Revolution as two good places to start opening your eyes to the the grim reality behind the Potemkin façade. In the meantime, try to lighten up a bit :-) Humor is one of the very few things that distinguish us from animals, I say let's keep it. :-) --Targeman 09:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Again, opposition to communism ≠ anti-communism. I have a sense of humor, and I love jokes, they just don't belong in an encyclopedia. That would be the case whether or not they were about communism or the USSR. Further, things like "Communism was a humour-producing machine. Its economic theories and system of repression created inherently funny situations. There were jokes under fascism and the Nazis too, but those systems did not create an absurd, laugh-a-minute reality like communism" definitely do not belong in wikipedia, which is supposed to be NPOV; not to mention the fact that communism hasn't yet existed. I'd recommend you investigate the countless crimes of capitalism, which vastly outweigh the mistakes made during the construction of socialism (and which were made, as Sartre said "to make the revolution" not to expand the wealth of the already filthy rich), if that were appropriate here; but it's not, so keep that nonsense out. Redflagflying 14:00, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The sentence you mention is a quote from a reputable magazine, not OR. Humor is an extremely interesting and notable subject; indeed, it is often considered a distinguishing trait of a culture - the British and the Jews, to mention but two societies, take pride in of their particular brand of humor. Other cultures notoriously suffer from the proverbial stick up the ass, making international relations that little bit more volatile. As for the tired sophistry that Communism has not yet happened - don't worry, you'll grow out of it. There is a reason why all Communist countries have openly or tacitly abandoned their economic model. Communism is a bankrupt ideology and will hopefully never come back. Take this from someone who has actually had the dubious privilege of living under it. --Targeman 14:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Redflagflying, your delete arguments seem to be based on WP:IDONTLIKEIT and WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC, two of many arguments which should be avoided. I dare say that every reader will find articles with which they disagree vehemently and, from their POV, seem unencyclopedic. Neither of those are grounds for deletion. Wikipedia is, after all, a consensus-driven community. —Travistalk 14:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
There is no such thing as a communist country. Sorry. You can join Fukuyama and hope all you want, but communism it not going away, and history is not ending; see: Cuba (which hasn't abandoned its economic model at all, contrary to your uninformed assertion), Venezuela, Nepal, Colombia, Philippines, etc. al. The dubious honor is living in countries were socialism was overthrown, for example Russia, where life expectancy has fallen at a rate unparalleled in history, and the main industries are now prostitution and organized crime. But really, this is not a place for this discussion. The bottom line is not the subject of the joke, but the fact that jokes are "Content not suitable for an encyclopedia." WP:Deletion lists that as a reason for deletion.Redflagflying 15:02, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete I question the reality of the "jokes". Take the second one from the Imperial period, which makes a joke whose humor depends on understanding that "seven" is a number in English and that "ass" is something that will make people laugh. The Russian word for "seven" isn't "seven" and does "ass" mean something in Russian that may cause the giggles to stir? I doubt it. But without sources, any one is free to include anything they want and that's what we got. Carlossuarez46 19:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
    • The subject is notable, and many parts are already sourced. It might not be hard for the most of the rest to be sourced too.--Kylohk 02:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. The subject is notable, as political jokes in Russia have had (and still have) much cultural influence in Russian society. -Mardus 13:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Speedy keep, WP:POINT nomination. The article could use a few more references, but it is certainly notable. Melsaran 11:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep In Soviet Russia, the article deletes you. per Cubbi spazure (contribs) 09:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.