Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Romeo and Juliet in Sarajevo
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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was Keep --Allen3 talk 11:47, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Romeo and Juliet in Sarajevo
Previously deleted through VfD. However, it was rightfully undeleted as VfD did not reach a proper concensus. I am re-nominating for deletion so that a concensus may be reached. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 21:59 UTC, 1 August 2005
- Delete - For non-notablility and because Wikipedia is not a memorial. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 21:59 UTC, 1 August 2005
- Delete non-notable, unencyclopedic -Soltak 23:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
- Delete per above. Denni☯ 23:55, 2005 August 1 (UTC)
- Keep. I am reworking this article so that it describes the verifiable and notable documentary about this couple. Pburka 01:17, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
- Obvious Keep. This couple and the event of their deaths was extremely notable. Strongly urge previous voters to reconsider their votes, as saying non-notable makes them look a bit silly! I would equate it with a Bosnian urging the deletion of Beltway sniper attacks, for example. Pcb21| Pete 07:31, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- Keep - famous case during the war, not just another couple of casualties - Skysmith 08:45, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- Comment. I reread the article and feel exactly the same. A horrible incident, but completely non-notable. As the initiating user stated Wikipedia is not a memorial. -Soltak 16:19, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- The world at large has found this incident notable, hence the coverage on the news for days at the time, the documentary, etc, etc, whether you personally don't find it notable or not. At Wikipedia, we don't do original research or indeed hold original opinions on the notability of an event. If the world at large says it notable, then it is. Don't you remember the news reports? Pcb21| Pete 17:15, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- What I remember is pretty irrelevant. Wikipedia is still not a memorial. -Soltak 17:17, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- The world at large has found this incident notable, hence the coverage on the news for days at the time, the documentary, etc, etc, whether you personally don't find it notable or not. At Wikipedia, we don't do original research or indeed hold original opinions on the notability of an event. If the world at large says it notable, then it is. Don't you remember the news reports? Pcb21| Pete 17:15, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- Keep Wikipedia is also not paper. Besides I don't agree that this article constitute a "memorial" these people do have "a claim to fame besides being fondly remembered by their friends and relatives". Lots of people are notable, not for who they where, but for the attention theyr deaths caused. Jean Charles de Menezes, Amadou Diallo and Terri Schiavo to list a few. Be mindfull of systemic bias when considering the notoriety of a subject. --Sherool 18:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- I don't feel that I'm biased at all. To assert that my vote was based on the fact that I'm not Eastern European is absurd. As far as the individuals you listed are concerned, each of their deaths is entirely different. Menezes is notable as it was a total error and was caused by a 'trigger happy' attitude brought on by the fear and hysteria of the London bombings. Diallo's death deals with the disturbingly pervasive issue of police brutality in American. Schiavo's death became a political issue and talking point and is therefore notable. As I mentioned previous, the deaths of the couple in this article is a tragedy. Unfortunately, it has nothing distinctly notable that sets it apart from other civilian casualties of war. -Soltak 18:36, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- How many civilian casialties of war was picked up as headline news across the world and spawned documentaries and songs about theyr fate? They became a "symbol" of the conflict, and hence notable. Just like Tank man was no more or less notable than the other Chinese dissidents, but because pictures of him was picked up in the media he became a notable symbol of the conflict (except he didn't die (AFAIK)), another example of a casualty of war that became notable was
the Viet cong prisonerNguyen Van Lem who was executed on camera during the Vietnam war. Besides "Romeo and Juliet in Sarajevo" score 14,000 hits on Google, and CNN have a special page about the couple. IMHO that set them quite a bit apart from the average civilian casualty of war. --Sherool 23:37, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- How many civilian casialties of war was picked up as headline news across the world and spawned documentaries and songs about theyr fate? They became a "symbol" of the conflict, and hence notable. Just like Tank man was no more or less notable than the other Chinese dissidents, but because pictures of him was picked up in the media he became a notable symbol of the conflict (except he didn't die (AFAIK)), another example of a casualty of war that became notable was
- I don't feel that I'm biased at all. To assert that my vote was based on the fact that I'm not Eastern European is absurd. As far as the individuals you listed are concerned, each of their deaths is entirely different. Menezes is notable as it was a total error and was caused by a 'trigger happy' attitude brought on by the fear and hysteria of the London bombings. Diallo's death deals with the disturbingly pervasive issue of police brutality in American. Schiavo's death became a political issue and talking point and is therefore notable. As I mentioned previous, the deaths of the couple in this article is a tragedy. Unfortunately, it has nothing distinctly notable that sets it apart from other civilian casualties of war. -Soltak 18:36, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
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- The very fact that you write "it has nothing distinctly notable that sets it apart from other civilian casualties of war" shows your are arguing out of ignorance of the event. Apologies if this sounds harsh; but I only think it is right if the administrator evaluating this debate to bears it in mind when weighing up the votes. Pcb21| Pete 20:30, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- What's that supposed to mean? You're smarter than me so your vote should count more? -Soltak 21:07, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- Now come on. You know that's not what I wrote or meant. You've more or less said yourself that you hadn't heard of the event before reading about it in this article, and making your own personal judgements about the notability of the event without a wider understanding. Be big enough to admit that it is possible that you made a mistake. Pcb21| Pete 05:57, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- What's that supposed to mean? You're smarter than me so your vote should count more? -Soltak 21:07, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
- The very fact that you write "it has nothing distinctly notable that sets it apart from other civilian casualties of war" shows your are arguing out of ignorance of the event. Apologies if this sounds harsh; but I only think it is right if the administrator evaluating this debate to bears it in mind when weighing up the votes. Pcb21| Pete 20:30, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
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- Keep as per Pcb21, Skysmith. It was a notorious event and well illustrates the life in Sarajevo during the war. I wonder how important someone has to be to be notable enough.--Jyril 20:05, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
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- It is true that the individuals themselves would be non-notable.--Jyril 22:45, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
- Comment. 14300 hits from Google for "Romeo and Juliet in Sarajevo", 127 for "Admira Ismić", and 97 for "Boško Brkić".--Jyril 22:45, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
- It appears that most hits come from http://discardedlies.com .--Jyril 22:48, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. Of course it's notable. Give me a break. Everyking 08:39, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- Keep obviously. Grue 11:29, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. The page is about a documentary, a documentary that tells a story that's notable and important. There's nothing in the article to suggest that it is a memorial, but rather, it gives the information about a documentary, and succinctly summarizes the story told by the documentary. Jason 18:01, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- Further comment: it occurred to me that one very good marker of notability is the fact that a documentary has been made about the event; that's a reasonable indicator that the event was notable. Jason 23:03, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. I too believe that of course, this is notable. Moriori 22:14, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
- Delete sad as their story is Wikipedia is not a memorial. JamesBurns 03:42, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
- Keep, clearly notable. --FOo 04:15, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.
