Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roland John Morris, Sr.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 00:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roland John Morris, Sr.

Wikipedia is not an obituary column. Nn; closest approach to a claim to notability is running (and losing) in a Congressional primary. Septentrionalis 16:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Also states that he is co-founder of the Christian Alliance for Indian Child Welfare but that organization appears barely notable [1]. Author's name appears online in various pages related to that organization [2] and an article by "CERA". Appears not-notable enough.--Fuhghettaboutit 16:47, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutral pending verification of major newspaper article treatment mentioned below. If not provided then Delete. If kept, major NPOV rewrite. --Fuhghettaboutit 17:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does contain facts and information about many, many people that have passed on. Roland's running in a Montana State race is not his only claim to notability. To many people, Roland, a member of the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe, Leech Lake, was an important man, giving a difficult message from his heart in effort to help his family and friends. A quick search of his name, Roland Morris, Sr., brings up several various websites discussing his message, including his testimony before the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs in 1998. I don;t know what local tribe sites you are mentioning. I haven't seen any. I do see several references to him from national organizations such as CERA, UCE, and UPOW, and well as many national Indian Sites, such as Indian Country Today and others. At his death, he was recognized and spoken fondly of by leaders in our western Montana home community. Some have called him a hero. Many, even his opponents, have noted his extreme courage and integrity. Currently, a documentary on his life is being shown on cable TV in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I hope that the Wikipedia staff will allow his life to be accurately documented for those that are interested. Thanks, Morris Family 16:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete while I am sorry for the Morris family's loss, this individual does not merit his own article. Where ^(talk) 17:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

If it were only the Morris family's loss, that might be so. Interestingly, the above writers ignored many of the events listed in Mr. Morris' life that made him notable. He testified before numerous State committees through the years, as well as the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs in April of 1998 and the Minnesota Attorney General in 2000. He was also allowed a private meeting with a member of the President's Domestic Policy Council in 2002 in Washington DC, and spoke at the National Press Club in 2004. A person doesn't get invited to testify before Senate Committees, speak to a presidential aide, or speak to the national press unless they have something to say, and are respected by these entities as someone knowledgeable and notable. Through the years, he has also appeared in numerous newspaper articles across the country. The last article he appeared in was on Friday, May 14th, 2004, in the Washington Times. While it is true that not everyone in the world has heard of Roland Morris, he was a notable figure.

But what many that knew him found the most inspiring was that Roland lived a rough, criminal life for his first forty or so years, including jail time, and then turned it all around the way he did in his last 17 years. To go from abject poverty on the Rez and time in the county workhouse to meeting privately with a presidential aide isn't a real common thing. It only happened because he had something notable to say. He was a tribal member that was very unusual in the message he had to give.Morris Family 17:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how to indent to respond to your above indent. I am just copying from the Wash Post site and pasting. They misspelled his name. That happens. To obtain the full artice/link from the site, one has to sign in with a archives user password.

Article ID: 200405140833060082 Published on May 14, 2004, Washington Times, The (DC) Indians fear legal breakup of family Tribe likely to assume custody

Rowland Morris Sr., who suffers from a terminal illness, ....

• Neutral on deletion for now; I could be convinced this guy is notable enough. However, the article has to be massively rewritten if it is to be kept. It is extremely unencyclopedic, but if the claims are true, this guy seems to hit the threshhold for notability, if barely. --Deville (Talk) 17:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughts. When I search

MSN, using "Roland Morris, Sr." (In Quotes) I come up with eight different sites, the entire page, specifically mentioning him. Only one is CAICW. A couple I recognize. The others I don't.

Yahoo, the entire first page, seven different sites, a couple are repeated, only one is CAICW. On the next page, another six different sites. Some of these I know, but many I know nothing about, other than that they are quoting Roland Morris. Other mentions scattered on next pages.

Google - all on the first page are Roland; eight different ones, only one is CAICW. All on the second page are about Roland, scattered mentions on subsequent pages. I know this doesn't happen at all with my name. And this doesn't include sites that might respond to his full name, Roland John, or to activities he was invovled in, or misspellings of his name.

Rewriting is acceptable. I was simply trying to do this process quickly, and so used (with permission) material already written. Offical Link to his US Senate Committee Testimony, http://www.senate.gov/~scia/1998hrgs/0407_rm.htm , although other sites have also reprinted the testimony. Morris Family 19:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:NOT (a memorial). If this subject is notable then surely someone not related to him will be along with a neutrally written article any day now. No prejudice against future encyclopaedic treatment, might reconsider if completely rewwritten and verifiable evidence of notability per WP:BIO added. Just zis Guy you know? 20:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Just zig Guy's fine explanation. Joe 21:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete 36 ghits tells me he's non-notable. Eivind^t@c 23:07, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, interesting life, but no evidence of WP:BIO and WP:NOT the place to remember lost friends. Deizio 16:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

We have done some editing, taking out unnecessary sentences and adding relevant information. Morris Family 08:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

"Has the person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in the specific field?"

The following articles verify the work that Mr. Morris was engaged in and his contribution to these controversial issues. Within this specific field, it is evident that he was considered an important contributor. Some of the links below are articles written by Mr. Morris' opponents, not his friends. For example, he was recognized and vilified by the Montana Human rights Network as being an important contributor to his field. However, due to the lawsuit Mr. Morris brought against MHRN, not all of the articles they had written concerning him appear to be still available online. (ie, for one: "Are They Racists? The Anti-Indian Movement in Montana." Montana Human Rights Network News, November 1999. [ http://www.mhrn.org/news/1199anti.html ]

But they have left a couple articles... http://www.mhrn.org/newsarchive/298face.html http://www.mhrn.org/newsarchive/298acere.html

And there are other sites verifying his work: http://www.citizensalliance.org/links/pages/articles%20and%20CERA%20news/Roland%20Morris%20obituary.htm http://www.ratical.org/ratville/NewTerminators.html http://www.publiceye.org/indigenous/anti-sovereignty.html http://www.senate.gov/~scia/1998hrgs/0407_rm.htm http://www.saulttribetimes.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=71&mode=&order=0&thold=0 http://www.perm.org/articles/a223.html

a blog http://thesovereignpost.blogstream.com/v1/p3.html

Comment I would urge you to look at other Wikipedia articles, particularly biographical ones on recognized figures, to get a measure of the standard style of WP articles, and format the nominated one accordingly. The "headline" is especially unusual for a WP article. Also, if you attach links and new information to the article (where they count), you need only notify other editors that you have done so on this AfD debate, rather than posting all the links here. Editors will be happy to check out the page again. It may well be (especially if the page is deleted) that it is ultimately more appropriate to wait for a more neutral contributor to formulate and submit this article anew in the future. Deizio 15:02, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.