Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roguesci

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. - Mailer Diablo 01:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Roguesci

Comment: Completing an AFD nomination by 165.189.91.148. feydey 01:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

• Delete spam and not encyclopedic anyway.--MONGO 01:34, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Croat Canuck 02:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Spam. Jtmichcock 02:40, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: Spam. Mat334 08:58, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable (Bjorn Tipling 20:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)).

comment article is an orphan.Geni 18:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

• Comment Take a look at [1]. Apparently the site is being accused of harboring a terrorist network. That may make a good article with some sort of actual information, and give it some importance. --Aleron235 22:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Hardly, given that the information is given on the site itself (and a couple of posts on mailing lists that they have written themselves). Delete / Ezeu 03:00, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delay judgement The article is clearly not finished and the site is seen by many (not least its members) as a test of what accurate, yet use unspecific, information the public should be allowed to know in these post 9/11 days.
  • Yes, I am slightly bothered by the AfD vote occuring one day after the start of the article, 80.229.21.128. In the future, please make an account if you wish to vote/comment on AfDs.--Aleron235 02:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Thankyou. Have added an aspect of the forum not currently included by the original author. I hope and think the entry will turn quite quickly into a balenced look at the site and that given the content and history this cannot be considered either spam or not notable. Furthurmore since names and faces can be attached to some of the casualties this makes it a much tougher test of free speech than merely theoretical, and that neither side of the argument can be easily dismissed, nor should be overlooked.--Ambix 15:11, 11 December 2005 (GMT)
• Keep Please don't be so quick to dismiss this as spam, as just like The Wikipedia, the aim of RogueSci is the free spread of information, it is not the aim of this article's creator, myself, or any other RogueSci member to generate traffic for us or further any commercial gain, we seek merely to regain contact with people who beleive that RogueSci no longer exists due to censorship of the site by some ISPs, governments, e.t.c. Ezeu, if you'd actually took some time to read the article you'd have learned that the site itself is being blocked by several major ISPs, and that's why this article was started, it is by no means finished... I ask all of you to allow this article to remain for now, so that RogueSci can get in touch with its missing members and begin to do some serious work on this Wiki entry. We have a lot of good information to contribute, and are not seeking to simply spam this site or generate traffic for RogueSci. Sorry for not making an account (but no, I'm not the same person as 80.229.21.128), I'll get to that later, but it does say that anyone can contribute to an AfD discussion. I would also like to note as an afterthought that other such sites discussing similar information such as TOTSE.com are allowed Wiki entries, even when their content is of a lower level of intellect and more focused around the uses of such information for crime and vandalism, rather than being focused around scientific discussion and the spread of information. -Xyz, RogueSci.org 202.72.172.136 09:13, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Spam. This is an encyclopedia, not a link list for bomb makers. Opening the actual site doesn't give much confidence in the accuracy of this statement from their spokesman "around the uses of such information for crime and vandalism, rather than being focused around scientific discussion and the spread of information" Xyz.

A quick check of the site brings up quite the opposite, I quote:

"The device is constructed out of (preferably) non-metallic materials, with a mechanical or chemical delay, inserted in the appropriate orifice (and it's non-gender-specific, so we're being equal-opportunity!), and locked into place. The device is such that, when locked, it expands to such a diameter as to be unremovable without surgery (assuming you're not using it on a fisting fetishist), and begins the timer or chemical reaction that will result, if not removed, in someones ass being seperated from their body in a spectaculary lethal manner." Nbk

"Hey, the hostages are expendable, so why does it have to be removable?" Xyz

I dont trust that legitamacy of this wiki entry, and its promotion of illegal, immoral activities.(waspt 22:27, 11 December 2005 (UTC)).

• The thread you have quoted above was an attempt to see things from the perspective of terrorists, to get inside their minds so to speak, and through that gain a deeper understanding of methods they may use. As such, it is totally out of context in the way you have used it. Think about it, if we really had terrorist intentions, would we post them on the internet for the whole world to see? I don't know about you Waspt, but I wouldn't. We don't promote illegal or immoral activity, we merely seek to discuss it and draw attention to it. Call it investigative journalism turned up a notch. Information should be free for everyone to know, because an informed population is one less susceptible to terror. RogueSci is also hardly a site "for bomb makers" as you put it, in fact, I challenge you to go and start a thread at RogueSci even so much as hinting at intentions of really making a bomb, just see how long it takes for your account to be banned and the thread closed. I am also by no means RogueSci's spokesperson, so please do not label me as such - I'm just someone who chooses to stand up for what I beleive is a worthy cause. -Xyz 202.72.172.136 07:07, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

• • If your not the "spokesman" then I'm not sure why you care. This entry seems to have ulterier motives as evidenced by the very thread generated in that forum to discuss creating a wiki entry. I pull a quote from the thread, which discusses the wiki:

"It'd be great for keeping track of 'recipes' as, try as I might, it's damn near impossible to do so here. How many variations on the AP process alone? Christ...dozens, if not a hundred. Then sources for the process, testing for purity, VoD and expansion values, videos and pictures, etc., etc. All this is scattered over dozens of threads over the years. If it was all consolidated into just one Wiki entry, it'd be huge! Instead of telling a newbie to UTFSE (which isn't always helpful), you point them to a Wiki entry and let them learn on their own. If they follow the 'recipes' without killing themselves (which they shouldn't because our info is CORRECT), they'll be flush with success and want to tell someone about it. Where would they then go to?" Nbk

Its said within that very forum that this wiki entry is to be used to post "recipes" for people to follow, which I can only assume to be bomb recipes. I mean REALLY if you are going to abuse wiki to post bomb making recipes, you dont discuss it openly then link into it from here. Thats just dumb.waspt 10:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)).

• • • You have either not read the thread from the start waspt, or not understood it. The thread starts,

"Has anyone any thoughts about hosting an E&W wikipedia site alongside the forum"

The key words here are 'hosting' and 'alongside'. The thread is suggesting that someone use software downloaded from the internet to host their own wikipedia and discussing what that should contain. Not that they should dump information onto wikipedia.org. There is even discussion as to where the site should be hosted! Noone there has suggested that the wikipedia.org entry should contain any methods of anykind at all. --Ambix 10:30, 12 December 2005 (GMT)

• • • • Waspt, I already explained why I care, if you'd taken the time to read what I'd said. I don't have to be a spokesperson for something to support it. Ever heard of the phrase "When you assume you make an ass out of u and me"? For the last time, WE ARE NOT A SITE FOR BOMB RECIPES, even though TOTSE.com is, and yet you allow them a Wiki entry. As I said, I challenge you to go to RogueSci and ask about "bombmaking" without getting your account deleted and your IP range banned for good. Likewise, feel free to delete any "bombmaking recipes", whatever that means, that appear in our Wiki entry. If any do appear then they certainly won't have been added by any member of RogueSci. If this is about censorship, you will find larger quantities of far more detailed information about the manufacture and deployment of conventional explosives, nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, e.t.c. at the US Patent Office website than anywhere else on the web. Go censor them. -Xyz 07:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• • • • • Comment Censoring RogueSci would be stupid, and the opposite of what Wikipedia stands for. Let the article develop. As for the complaints that bomb recipes might be posted, well, search for any common term for pretty much any explosive on wikipedia, and you get a result. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Explosive_chemicals ) Try "nitroglycerin", and skip down to the "Preperation" section ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitroglycerine#Preparation ) If someone posts a recipe here, it should be moved to the right place, rather than causing this rather interesting thread to be killed. '

• • • • • • ^ Words of wisdom in the post above, thankyou anonymous ^ -Xyz 07:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per MONGO-Mat334 inclusive. Stifle 22:43, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Stifle for appropriate name. Delete

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.