Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rocket World

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Consensus is that the topic does not meet the general notability guidelines. Other than the three SPAs participating in the discussion, Accounting4Taste did list a reference, that Jayron32 rebutted as being a non Wikipedia reliable source. The article listed twelve references, none of which is linked to the article text or gives any indication of containing information about Rocket World. The twelve references were not relied up in this discussion to show that the topic met WP:N and were dismissed by the delete discussion. -- Jreferee t/c 23:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rocket World

Rocket World (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Deletion nomination Contested speedy. Article is about a non-notable corporation per WP:CORP. The article claims that the company is a notable one in the world of designer vinyl toys. While some sources have been added, these are all about the industry of designer vinyl toys in general, and NO evidence has been presented which indicates that this company is notable within that industry. Jayron32|talk|contribs 16:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

• Weak Delete. Keep (see below). I did find this page on a site called Vinyl Pulse that talks about the toys, but (a) it seems to be aimed at stores that would carry them, which doesn't really lend notability IMHO, and (b) I couldn't find anything else of significance. I admit the idea of homicidal members of endangered species struck me as funny, but not sufficient to recommend keeping this. Accounting4Taste 19:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep As a participant and follower of this genre of Designer Toys you astute contributors might try doing a search in Google for "Insurgents Wilderness Gruppo" to open your eyes to much more content regarding Rocket World. You 2 may know more than I ever hope to know about football or pulp mystery novels ;-), but do some leg work in a genre you clearly know very little about before making quick myopic judgments on this article and this company's relevance in its field. I have been collecting numerous figures from just about all the artists/designers/companies mentioned in this article and Rocket World's Insurgents Wilderness Gruppo is definitely one of the most notable company contributing to this area. Only recently having found the article about Designer Toys on Wikipedia during a Google search, I was pleased to see many of the other companies deservedly mentioned in this article with supporting links. Rocket World needs one too. I think this article should definitely bee a keeper. Thanks guys. :-) Publicstorage (talk • contribs • logs) 08:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC) — Publicstorage (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Comment Thanks for your comment, although you neglected to mention that you created the article in question and thus your suggestion to keep it might not meet conflict of interest guidelines. You might want to find the impartial third-party arm's-length references that you suggest are plentiful and add them to the article in order that it could be reconsidered -- that's what AfD is for. You're correct that I don't know much about vinyl toys, but I do consider myself an expert Internet researcher with a lot of experience in interpreting Wikipedia guidelines, and I couldn't find anything much that added notability to the article, including the search parameters you suggested; I wish you better luck. Accounting4Taste 13:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I think it was obvious that I wrote the article based on the history anyone can see when viewing the tab. I felt the article worth writing. I do fully admit that I am a neophyte to Wikipedia and all of the ins and outs. I am still learning the correct SOP's and "interpreted guidelines" so graciously pointed out by sagacious wiki-giants such as yourself. Thanks for being such a gentleman about it. Well, as for "better luck" looks like your "Internet research expertise" was just recently expanded. Ahh..both our minds and skill sets have suddenly grown. Life is good. -- Publicstorage (talk • contribs • logs) 09:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Having covered the designer toy marketplace for about 5 years, I can tell you that Rocket World is a major player in the genre. They are one of the first US based companies to design and produce a line of urban vinyl figures (Insurgents Wilderness Gruppo). Over the past several years, they have consistently released quality limited edition products for collectors. And their booth is always one of the most popular in the UV section of San Diego Comic Con. If you're looking for coverage of Rocket World, please check out our Rocket World section on Plastic and Plush. We have a number of reviews of their figures and products. (which we don't sell...we're just a news source) Please reconsider deleting this entry. Slovak34 03:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC) — Slovak34 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Comment. I'm always willing to be convinced, and this tips me over the edge in the opposite direction. I was fooled upon seeing it the first time because I thought the price listings on the first item indicated that the site was selling the toys; this appears to be an arm's-length third party review site which adds notability sufficient for me to change my suggestion to "Keep". I'll add the citation to the article myself. Accounting4Taste 15:43, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

• The site shown has 2 problems with it. 1) It really looks like simply a menu of products, having items for sale does not make one notable, else Ebay would be all that we need. There is a rudimentary review of each product. 2) The page is a blog, and does not have the hallmark of a reliable source. Look, there are blogs out there where people review Fan Fiction, but it does not make said items of fan fiction notable. What we need is not just a third-party source (which are ALWAYS availible on ANYTHING. Hell, I could probably find a third-party source which talks about me), but a RELIABLE third-party source as outlined in WP:N, WP:CORP, and WP:RS. I still have seen no evidence that such references exist.--Jayron32|talk|contribs 16:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

• Good luck finding a Designer Toy website that doesn't use a blog to convey news. I hate to tell you, but if you don't accept Vinyl Pulse or Plastic and Plush as reliable sources for the Urban Vinyl scene, then Wikipedia probably shouldn't have anything about the genre listed. My "rudimentary" blog has been noted in the LA Times, Entertainment Weekly and several other mainstream publications. You can also add Millionaire Playboy as a site that has a decent amount of Rocket World coverage. And I just saw that site mentioned on G4TV's Attack of the Show a few weeks back. Slovak34 14:29, 11 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.84.205.190 (talk)
• Comment Jayron32 you amaze me with your self appointed expertise on the subject of "Designer Toys". While who can deny your display of vigor and verve on summary conclusions about a genre you clearly know little about, perhaps you are applying interpreted Wikipedia guidelines to suit your own sense of prosecution and edification. We can all appreciate the self appointed guardians of the right from time to time when taken in good measure, but in this scenario it seems a bit overdone, no? Common good sir, try and see beyond your cursory dabble tempered by your years of expert mainstreaming. XO, ;-). -- Publicstorage (talk • contribs • logs) 09:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep To omit Rocketworld from the Designer Toy entries of Wikipedia would be an incredibly short sided decision. The definition of Designer Toys (as found on this site) is “Designer toys is a term used to describe toys and other collectables that are produced in limited editions (as few as 50 or as many as 2000 pieces) and created by artists and designers. Designer toys employ a variety of materials; plastic and vinyl are most common, although wood and metal are occasionally used. The term also encompasses plush, cloth dolls and latex. Creators of designer toys usually have backgrounds in graphic design, illustration or self-described low-brow art; some are classically trained in art and design, while others are self-taught. Designer toys first appeared in the 1990s and are a flourishing industry.” The toys created by Rocketworld are limited, created by a graphic designer (with art schooling), and made from vinyl. Obviously, they are Designer Toys since they fit the already established guidelines. The Eastern movement of this genre started in the late 80s to early 90s, but the Western movement really hit in the late 90s to early 2000s. It’s worth noting that Titus, Rocketworld’s first toy debuted at this time and was the start of one of the first continuing lines of Designer Toys. Not all Designer Toys need to have “earth shattering” principles. Take Qees for example. These toys are undisputable as a staple in the Designer Toy world, but don’t really do more than look nice. Rocketworld toys, however, have a solid design aesthetic as well as convey a message (like great art often does). Their tongue in cheek depiction brings attention to the problem of our world’s rapidly declining natural resources. Finally, it’s worth noting that Rocketworld is very active in the Designer Toy community. The creator, Patrick Ma, has been interviewed in documentaries such as “Toys Are Us”; and has been mentioned in numerous magazines, such as Juxtapoz, Entertainment Weekly, and Mass Appeal; and books such as MTV’s Overground 3: Toys, Dot Dot Dash, and I Am Plastic. The gallery at their California based store has art/toy openings bringing the community together and introducing new people to the genre. Rocketworld always has a booth (this year actually it was 2) at San Diego Comic Con, and the toys always sell out. All these points make it obvious that the Designer Toy community believes that Rocketworld is a legitimate part of the genre. Again, it would be extremely short sided to omit Rocketworld from the Designer Toy section of Wikipedia. Not only does the company fit the definition, it is a popular line loved my much of the community. Please see MillionairePlayboy.com articles. -- Jager-MPb (talk • contribs • logs) 20:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC) — Jager-MPb (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.