Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Poulin

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was NO CONSENSUS. Though I have to say it is obviously silly to have two so closely similar articles separate from one another, and it strikes me that people are being needlessly difficult about the point. Evidently we're not looking at deletion, though, so discussion elsewhere is needed to work out what properly to do. -Splash - tk 17:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Poulin

Robert Poulin (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

There is nothing here to write a biography about. If he were still alive, this could be deleted under WP:BLP1E. I have been trying to redirect this page to the article on the shooting, but it keeps getting reverted. The article basically repeats what's in the stubby school shooting article. Corvus cornix 22:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep - This person is historically significant as he was the first High School shooter in Canadian history. There was a book written about him called "Rape of a Normal Mind" ISBN 0-7701-0025-2 cited at the article. There are other citations in the article supporting the occurrence, which happened before the Internet became popular. Chessy999 22:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - per Chessy999. The same BLP1E argument would apply to Christopher McCandless, which seems like a similar situation, WP-wise --- tqbf 22:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete and/or merge with St. Pius X High School shooting. Although the article is weak, and although it is verbatum the same as this, I think it's possible to let someone make the article better by merging the two together in a more comprehensive look at things. As a side note, be careful using other articles as defense, it will easily become a OTHER complaint. I agree that the article is short because of its pre-internet occurence and vehemently agree that things like this CRAP don't belong here just because they happened this year. Keeper | 76 23:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)z
Comment: I disagree - both articles are stand alone articles and should be left alone. This is about an AFD for Robert Poulin if you want to AFD the other then post it there. Chessy999 00:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Comment - uhhhhhh, both articles had (until this afternoon) exactly the same content. One of them's got to go. --- tqbf 00:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
No, then post an AFD and not a #Redirect because I disagree, one is a bio and one is the incident just like all the others ex.: Kimveer Gill and Dawson College Shooting Chessy999 02:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Those aren't exactly the same article. These two are. Exactly. The same. --- tqbf —Preceding comment was added at 02:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • keep good, well sourced stub. Artw 23:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
    • How is this stub any different from the stub about the shooting? Where is the biography here? Corvus cornix 23:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
      • I agree that this stub is not notable outside the "shooting" stub. There is no need for two separate stubs that say the exact same thing. Keeper | 76 23:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
        • Sure. Get rid of St. Pius X High School shooting; "Robert Poulin" + shooting gets far more hits. --- tqbf 23:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
          • GHITS ≠ notability. Two stubs with the exact same language = one article, with a redirect. Keeper | 76 01:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
            • Of course I agree. #REDIR the St. Pius article. --- tqbf 01:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Obviously notable. Nick mallory 23:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect to St. Pius X High School shooting. The action rather than the person is what's notable here, and there's absolutely no need for two essentially identical articles. Deor 03:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as a book was written about him, he's notable. discuss possible merges elsewhere.DGG (talk) 07:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Robert Poulin is not notable outside of his act of violence. St. Pius X school shooting is notable but not without its shooter. The two "articles" are inseparable without valid, independent resources. The proof is in the indentical stubs. There is nothing to say about R.Poulin except that he shot people. An article titled "...shooting" is going to be basically about the shooter. Same article. (and please don't bring up higher profile cases like Columbine and Red Lake as examples to keep both - the key is independent, reliable sources.) To those citing this book, (which, BTW, is out of print, unavailable, and completely obscure) has anyone actually read it? Saying "the book is about him" is not necessarily true, DGG, unless you've read it. Is the book about Robert Poulin or is it about the shootings at SPXHS, perpetrated by Robert Poulin? Would a book about Robert Poulin exist without his one act of violence? Inseparable. My opinion is to delete both articles and merge the content into the St. Pius X High School (Ottawa) main article. Keeper | 76 15:15, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Would a book about the shooting exist without him? Would a book about the school exist without him--and the incident. The three are obviously related. A single really notable event is enouuh to make all three notable. DGG (talk) 01:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
You want to take the first school shooting in Canadian history and merge it into an article about a school nobody has ever heard of? --- tqbf 17:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Yep. To be fair, nobody has ever heard of Robert Poulin, SPXHS, OR SPXHS Shooting. Schools, especially high schools, are, IMO, notable just by existing. (although their articles are frequently targets of HS aged vandals who are bored in study hall.) Without significant, independent sources, it doesn't matter if this claims to be the first, (or the worst, or the bloodiest, etc and et al and blah and blah and blah). I can write an article that says Joe Blowsmith shot people at his Vancouver school in 1969 and a book was written about him. Rightfully, this article would be deleted unless I could prove it independently. I stated earlier that it is unfortunate that "pre-internet" events are poorly covered on the internet and things like Panda sneeze get articles instead of school shootings and other significant events. But, I digress. This isn't the place for that general a subject. Keeper | 76 17:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Nobody has ever heard of Robert Poulin, SPXHS, OR SPXHS Shooting? There's a book about it, and a ton of G hits. And it's not news; it's an historical event. --- tqbf 18:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • comment It seems this AFD is the result of a failed attempt to merge/redirect the article without discussion on the part of Corvus cornix[1]. Perhaps a better approach would have been to discuss merger on the article talk pages? This just seems like an attempt to do an end-run around the regular concensus based process Artw 17:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
There's a dupe article at St. Pius X High School shooting and some debate as to whether the incident is notable or belongs as a section in the article St. Pius X High School (Ottawa). It seems like something is going to be deleted. --- tqbf 18:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.