Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert D. Parks

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was no consensus. Mailer Diablo 16:09, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robert D. Parks

No notability - vanity page about a school committee member fbb_fan 10:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep He has an impressive resume that shows he is not just involved in a local school committee.[1] He is a Director of a centre for Florida Atlantic university and has previously held Professor and Associate Professor positions at different universities. Ansell 10:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. None of that seems to satisfy WP:BIO. Holding professor positions at different universities is hardly notable, and the center at Florida Atlantic (essentially an extension of his school board position [2]) doesn't appear to make him worthy of an entry either. If he has additional academic notability, it needs to be added to the article. Dsreyn 12:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • As a community leader I think he has notability. How is holding professor positions at different universities and being the director of a research centre "hardly notable". Why does this person specifically not deserve and article via their contribution to their community? Note that WP:BIO is not meant to be a final guideline, so why define your opinion about the article by his not fitting it. Ansell 01:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. Like it or not, there is a lot of precedence for using WP:BIO as a litmus test. And what is at all notable about having held professorships at different universities? In plain English, all that means is that he's a college professor who has changed jobs. Are you suggesting that anyone who has done that is worthy of a Wikipedia entry? fbb_fan 01:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Correction, in plain American English, that may be correct, however, the rest of the world doesn't use the term that liberally. He has held chairs, no? Are they not higher than the typical lecturer? Like it or not, the test is still not definitive, even with its attempt at objectivity. Ansell 02:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. Since Parks works in the US, "American English" is the relevant interpretation. And there is absolutely nothing notable about being an Associate Professor or Professor in the United States. Are those the "chairs" you were referring to? If so, you should have a look at the article on professors, in particular, the section on the North American system. Associate Professor and Professor are not "chairs" in North America (see "named chairs" in the article). fbb_fan 02:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per Dsreyn. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 14:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Dsreyn. Well said. Ifnord 14:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Not merely a school committe member. Longest serving member of one of the largest school districts in the US, the largest by one measure. Leader in education policy both locally, statewide and nationally, as evidenced by references provided. Key figure in local politics (in Florida's second largest county) for decades. I agree with the premise that some school board members might not be notable. For example, the average American school board oversees a district with a couple of thousand students and maybe three sschools. Very large school districts, such as Broward, with its more than 250,000 students and well over 200 schools and other facilities are simply in a different league and are themselves notable entities in American education. As such, such a notable leader of such a district (and leader in other contexts) it notable. Captaintruth 15:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. The references in the article are links to the web sites for the Broward School Board (of which Parks is a member) and the center at Florida Atlantic (which Parks directs). Given Parks' direct involvement with both entities, I don't see how these references can be used to demonstrate his status as a leader in education. Is there a source independent of Parks that can establish this? fbb_fan 21:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Keep. This article seems to meet the criteria for notability, as any elected school board official in Broward County tends to get significant local press coverage by virtue of being on a frequently controversial school board. Bastique▼^parler _voir 23:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. Can you provide an example of such coverage that demonstrates that Parks himself has notability, independent of the school board? Otherwise, it sounds like the board is notable and perhaps worthy of an entry (though this isn't entirely clear either), but individual members are not. fbb_fan 00:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. Notability requirements do not necessitate his independance of the school board. His notability is quite prominently tied to his membership on the school board. Furthermore, he is well known locally, which also meets wikipedia's notability standards. In other words... just because you haven't heard of him doesn't mean he's nobody. I also believe that taken together, the school board and the university prominence should edge him over the "notability threshhold". Please bear in mind, my "keep" is weak. Bastique▼^parler _voir 02:37, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

The Sun-Sentinel has 658 archived stories on "Bob Parks" which date back to 1986 (the year of his first board race). The Miami Herald has at least 300... I consider that worthwhile. Remember, local notability counts toward notability. Bastique▼^parler _voir 02:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I should add that I neither know Bob Parks nor either of the other contributors to his article. I don't even remember if I voted for him or not in the last election. I do know of him. I also know that our school board, being elected county-wide, is heavily covered in the news, and its members more often than not tend to be local celebrities who often move on to other elected positions. Furthermore, I am a longtime contributor to Wikipedia and know something about our notability requirements. Let me quote:

Major local political figures who receive significant press coverage.

In that respect, I've changed my "weak keep" to a solid "Keep." Bastique▼^parler _voir 03:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. My objection was not "he's not notable because I haven't heard of him". Since you claim to be knowledgeable about notability, I'm sure you know that the burden of proof of notability is on the editors; it's not the reader's responsibility to track down the appropriate references to establish it. The article was nominated because as written, it did not come close to establishing any significant notability. fbb_fan 03:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment I disagree with the comment that "as written, it did not come close to establishing any significant notability". Although I freely acknowledge that I did not write the perfect article here, I did provide a link in the form of the school board web page about him (and somehow questioning the factual accuracy of a governmental webpage about one of its officials sems a little bit over skeptical) that discussed his numerous roles in the educational community and the community at large. Although perhaps more sources would have been useful, enough evidence of local notability was present that, though a clean-up or add sources tag may have made sense, an AFD nomination was overkill. Captaintruth 03:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. If the "governmental webpage" you're referring to is the Broward Schools site, I think the bigger issue is whether that establishes notability (though I still claim that they might not be totally objective - they certainly aren't going to post something negative about their own board member). Listing his degrees, work experience, and community activities doesn't meet the Wikipedia standard for notability, in my opinion. I agree that it establishes that he's active in the community, but every community has people like that, and most of them are not notable by Wikipedia standards. fbb_fan 22:22, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment First, I agree with your "every community has perople like that" point to an extent. The problem is that this is not any community. This is one of the five or six largest school districts in the country (and the largest by one measure). Beyond the school district, Broward County (in which he plays a prominent role, as evidenced by the sources provided), is the 15th most heavily populated county in the US [3] and number 2 in Florida [4]. You are correct that the school district website may be biaed in favor of including positive information, but it is unclear why he would be any less notable if negative information were also included. In fact, negative information (eg some kind of controversy, though as far as I know he has never been involved in one) would actually make him more notable. Finally, although I admit that this is not official wikipedia policy, several dedicated, long-term wikipedia users have worked diligently to improve wikipedia coverage of Florida in general and Broward County in particular. One of these users, who is also an administrator (user:Bastique, above) has weighed in with further evidence of Parks' notability. If there is ambiguity in this situation, wouldn't it just be more collegial of you to defer to those of us who have worked so hard to improve this corner of wikipedia? Interestingstuffadder 00:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. I'm not sure that your final point is valid. Editors of a page or a set of pages are likely to be biased (for obvious reasons) in favor of keeping pages they have worked on, or that are part of a project they work on (realistically, do you think anyone would vote "delete" on their own work?). Also, I have never seen any evidence that people "take the editor's word for it" that an entry is notable. In any case, I still remain unconvinced that Parks personally deserves a page. I think good arguments have certainly been made in favor of an entry on the Broward School Board - but not necessarily the individuals that comprise it. fbb_fan 01:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. I understand and respect your point. Either way, there doesn't exactly appear to be a consensus for deletion at this point. Captaintruth 01:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep...well referenced local notability (plus i live in sofla and this guy is always in the media, easily the highest-profile school board member for a long time). sources, though they are not perfect, seem to pass the threshold for inclusion. Yourebustedyo 02:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.