Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Alan Shields, Jr.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. —Cleared as filed. 23:53, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Alan Shields, Jr.

I'm bringing this over to the AFD rather than marking it for speedy as NN to get some feedback on this:

• The same article under Robert Alan Shields, Jr. has already been marked twice for speedy delete today
• Does the team think that being an executed murderer in itself qualifies for notability? The murder itself seems rather banal (If you'll excuse me)
• The information on the page asserts notability through This article, but that has been created by the same author today. 'Uncensored' gets plenty of google hits, primarily from anti-death penalty organizations
• The article author is herself an anti-death penalty activist (Just trying to establish points of reference, I'm not saying thats bad)
• I cant see how an article like this can ever be NPOV, or ultimately what point it serves
• MNewnham 01:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I agree that executed murderers are notable. The articles can be NPOV through use of balanced sources. The identity of the editor is not important. -- JJay 02:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • comment Should there be a limit, say, on who could have an entry? for example, only those executed in the USA since the reintroduction of the Death Penalty (1000 names)? Otherwise, there could be 2-3000 names per year added from across the world. MNewnham

• No limits at all. We can handle two or three thousand articles per year. Then we can merge or listify them. The possibilities are endless. -- JJay 18:44, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

• Strong delete. Wikipedia is not a memorial. We delete articles for soldiers who died for their country. We certainly ought to delete this. There's nothing special about this man's case except to the family that mourns the loss caused by his brutal, greedy, and stupid crime. Durova 03:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - The writer was interested in it. The death penalty is significant to many. More so than the detailed loggings of "The Apprentice" candidates! And that should be here too.

BTW - Why would anyone delete a soldiers memorial? As if sitting here writing articles on Wiki-pedia matter more than the life of a young soldier (In any country).

• Strong Keep (under the title Robert Alan Shields, Jr.). Most murderers, and certainly all of the ones sentenced to death in the US, received extensive press coverage and become extremely well-known to the people living in the areas where the crimes were committed. ×Meegs 04:51, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Suppose the family of the murdered victim creates a page. Would you delete that per WP:NOT while keeping the criminal? Durova 05:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
    • If it needs cleanup, or NPOV, there are numerous mechanisms on WP more appropriate than AFD . If the topic is verifiable (which this certainly is, with newspaper, television, and government records) and notable (which at least I think it is) it should not be deleted. ×Meegs 05:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
      • You haven't answered my question. Durova 05:22, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
        • No, sorry, I didn't. I would not strongly oppose deleting a page about a victim provided an otherwise nn murder victim, provided they didn't become well-known because of their death. Murders, on the other hand, with their exposure in the media and many people's strong emotional reactions, enter the public consciousness, just usually not on a national or international level as with Albert Fish. Here was a AFD debate on a convicted killer and two victims from a few weeks ago. ×Meegs 05:44, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
          • I don't follow your reasoning. If a murderer becomes encyclopedic because of hometown news and television coverage and government records, then why not the victim as well and for the same reasons? Why not a dead soldier who receives the same attention? Your standards are inconsistent. On December 15 we voted to keep this article because a particular convict received the death penalty under unusual circumstances. Note the comment that not even all death row inmates are notable, let alone all murderers everywhere. Durova 06:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Notable murderers include Albert Fish and John Wayne Gacy, this is tragic but not encyclopedia worthy. KillerChihuahua^?!? 05:02, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. There should be exact same notability standards for convicted murderes as there are for regular people. Flyboy Will 05:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Seems to meet notability and verifiability criteria. My beef is the new page with the "(murderer)" prefix: this is completely unnecessary, as we don't need to disambiguate from any other Robert Alan Shields, Jr. on Wikipedia. Turnstep 05:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per Turnstep Jcuk 06:40, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep The state sanctioned execution of prisoners in developed countries is so uncommon that the prisoners are notable enough for a wp article--Porturology 12:52, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment for the country in question this occurs on average nearly once a week. A general article on capital punishment or a referenced list is more appropriate for mundane instances. Durova 16:44, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and merge with Robert Alan Shields, Jr. --MisterHand 16:52, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. No way are murderers automatically notable. I'm not basing that on any moral belief, it's just that there's too many of them with very little to differentiate them. --Last Malthusian 17:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Last Malthusian and others. At least take the (murderer) out of the article name. Good grief. --Fang Aili 18:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Executed murderers should not automatically be considered notable (Per Malthusian and others) ... this is not a memorial. In addition, POV statement in the article that attempts to establish notability by claiming that the subject had a role in significantly raising public awareness is disputable. Contributions to a Texas death row inmates' blog does not constitute "significantly" raising awareness. Likewise, almost identical article, Robert Alan Shields, Jr. should be deleted. Since an original nomination for speedy delete, the article has had the speedy tag removed and has been re-written to mirror this Robert Alan Shields, Jr.(murderer) article. ERcheck 19:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per Turnstep. We only need one copy of this article on Wikipedia, so Robert Alan Shields, Jr.(murderer) should redirect to Robert Alan Shields, Jr. Hall Monitor 19:27, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

  Article has been moved to Robert Alan Shields, Jr. as per ×Meegs and others. Hall Monitor 18:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. Executed convicts in the United States are notable simply because they were executed. There are only a little over 1,000 persons that fit this category in the last 30 years. These individuals are notable as part of the debate surrounding the death penalty in the United States. Nolamgm 19:40, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Membership in a club of 1000 does not make him notable. As a collective they are notable as part of the death penalty debate but not as individuals. 207.175.84.67 22:52, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete It would be nice if executed prisoners were uncommon enough to merit articles. Sad to say, both the US and China seem to run assembly lines of sufficient production that executions are non-events. Denni ☯ 03:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per turnstep. Megapixie 05:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.