Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rita Verreos

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. W.marsh 13:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rita Verreos

She is an NN Survivor contestant who did nothing overly of note on the show and nothing else she has done really warrants giving her an entire page. Appearing in a couple pageants (and the article doesn't even say how she finished), appearing in a minor role in a film and having a relationship with a famous singer does not make her notable. A google search gets an unimpressive 16,000 hits, less than most of the other Survivor cast members this season. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 21:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Delete unless pageant source found - the article states she "represented Venezuala" in pageants. If she won a national title equivalent to Miss America or competed as a state-level representative in a notable national pageant, and it's verifiable, that would satisfy me regarding her notability. Otto4711 00:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

She competed in the Miss Venezuela pageant as Miss Vargas 1988,(near the bottom of this link - in Spanish) and appears to have placed second while representing Venezuela in the 1988 "Reinado del Banano" pageant.[1] --Maxamegalon2000 20:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Many of the WINNERS of these pagaents don't have pages, so what makes her participation in them so notable? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 23:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Keep national pageant contestants are notable - and Miss Venezuela contestants even more so. Plus she's been on Survivor. PageantUpdater User Talk Review me! 03:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

If Miss Venezeula participants are so notable, then please explain to me why half of the winners don't have articles and explain why Rita Verreos is such a notable participant. Did she actually do something notable there or did she just compete? And the bit about being on Survivor has already been explained. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 03:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

While in this instance I agree with your nomination, it is important to note that arguing against an article by pointing out that other articles don't exist is not particularly compelling. The other articles may not exist simply because no one has written them yet. Notability of Miss Venezuala participants as a whole can't properly be judged on the basis of whether articles for them exist or not. Otto4711 18:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

She played a very minor part in survivor. She was voted out early, and the only thing I remember about her is that she was voted out for being too annoying and useless in general. That said, the Miss Venezuela participation should suffice. Unless topics from Venezuela are inherently less notable than topics from the United States. So Keep.--Sucherror 04:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

But she didn't do anything notable, she just competed in it. MANY people have competed in national level pageants and the vast majority don't have pages, usually just the winners and the extremely notable other finishers. The article does not allege her doing anything notable. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 04:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

She didn't win Miss Venezuela, but she did win Miss Municipio Vargas State. If we're keeping wikipedia pages for every small town pageant winner in the US, it doesn't seem fair to delete the equivalent overseas topics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sucherror (talk • contribs) 04:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC).

Actually, very few American pageant winners on the state or town level have pages. I just picked a couple at random - Miss Montana, nobody has a page, Miss New York, 6 of 70+ and Miss Hawaii, 2 of 60+. Going international, there's Miss Canada International, 2 of over a dozen, Miss England, 3 of 40. And of those that DO have pages, they all went on to either win national level pageants or compete in Miss Universe (or another of those "big" international ones). All Rita Verreos has done is appear in a couple of episodes of Survivor. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 04:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Delete.--Sucherror 04:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. This seems to be where Scorpion and I differ regarding notability of Survivor contestants. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it seems that he requires individuals to be notable based on a single area of their biography; maybe they're notable as a Survivor contestant, or perhaps as a beauty pageant winner, but there must be at least one thing by itself for which the individual is notable, and the rest of the individual's biography need not be considered in the discussion. If my perception is inaccurate, Scorpion, please correct me.
  My viewpoint is different; I prefer to look at the individual's entire "portfolio," if you will. Consensus seems to be that being on Survivor does not confer notability by itself; I'm not so sure, but if everyone else is I'm more than happy to go along with it. Perhaps being a beauty pageant winner does not confer notability by itself; I'm not familiar enough with the pageant world and the Wikipedia community's consensus regarding it, but I'm also not so convinced of whether the lack of articles on pageant winners is a result of lack of notability or lack of them having been written yet. Certainly, being a pageant contestant consultant is not enough to meet the notability criteria, nor is being related to a Project: Runway contestant. However, I consider the Survivor appearance, the beauty pageant career (and, to a significantly lesser extent, the consultant position and the family note) to, when taken in total, sufficiently establish notability. --Maxamegalon2000 19:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
  • In that case, lets just go make pages for EVERY person who has ever appeared in a beauty pageant. The article doesn't say that she did anything notable there, so why should we keep a page just because she appeared in a pageant when many winners don't have pages? You seem to think that just APPEARING in an establishment of noitability. She appeared in a couple episodes of Survivor, she appeared in a couple pageants, she appeared in a movie. But, she did not do anything of overall note. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to mention the film appearance, which I would place somewhere between the Survivor & pageant stuff and the rest in terms of importance. It sounds like my interpretation of our different viewpoints is correct; as I said, I consider the total sum of the things you've listed to sufficiently establish notability, rather than require a single one of them to establish notability by itself. --Maxamegalon2000 20:05, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

In other words, you think that 1/4 + 1/4 + 1/4 = 1. Why don't you explain to me why doing these things is so notable that she deserves her own page? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 20:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Scorpion, I don't consider it a necessary or reasonable goal to convince you to adopt my position. I don't mean that in a negative way; your position is not unreasonable, and you seem to believe it very strongly. I suppose your math example is a reasonably accurate representation of my philosophy, though I wouldn't necessarily want to plug in numbers, and I think the numbers you chose are an unfair attempt to undermine my position. I guess I give a "value" to an individual's appearance on Survivor based on their status as a character on a top-20 television series. Though this "value" is subjective and certainly not numerical, winning a season would certainly confer at least a "1", with the values of the others based on the number of episodes and amount of coverage for the individual. As I said earlier, I don't know much about the pageant world, but the Miss Venezuela pageant seems to be one of the more notable ones, and she did represent Venezuela in another pageant. If I really had to assign numerical values to parts of Rita's "portfolio", and I don't think I do, her Survivor appearance and her pageant experiences would probably each be greater that 3/5; again, though, I think assigning numerical values is rather silly. --Maxamegalon2000 21:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

The page still only has one English source. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 23:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and fixed that. --Maxamegalon2000 20:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per Maxa. Irk_(talk) 21:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

• Delete - none of the individual accomplishments are particularly notable, and even aggregating it together doesn't pass the notability bar for me. -- Whpq 17:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. Possibly put a lit on the survivor page of the contestants of there isn't one already: but "being on survivor" is not notable, any more tan being a contestant on any other gameshow. This is not a case of "1/2 + 1/2 = 1". In this case, it's more like "1/100k + 1/100k = 2/100k". There are literally hundreds of thousands of gameshow contestants and pageant contestants. The vast majority of them lose: this is one of the vast majority.DewiMorgan 20:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.