Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RiceRokit
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Kurykh 02:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] RiceRokit
- RiceRokit (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)
- Dubcat (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)
Non notable band and blatant advertising. Delete. (both per TPH) Sting au Buzz Me... 00:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Delete both. We are not an advertising service. When your band is notable, someone else will write an article about you. ➪HiDrNick! 00:48, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- I added Dubcat, an associated band which isn't notable. Delete both as, although they claim to have former members of the Long Beach Allstars (who appear to be semi-notable), the bands RiceRokit and Dubcat have no other notability whatsoever -- no chart singles, major-label albums, or anything that resembles coverage in reliable sources. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 00:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. Teamrokit (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Mendacity. Misdirected animosity. My colleagues and I are perplexed at this irrational resistance; perhaps we've wronged these poor folks in a past life? Or is this quite like bidding on Ebay--the thrill of victory and all that?
Regardless, at the risk of repeating ourselves, we humbly submit yet once more, the explanation previously entered on the Talk:RiceRokit page (plus a bit more):
Importance and Significance of RiceRokit, Part 1
As found in:
Wikipedia Notability Guideline for Music
Criteria for musicians and ensembles
A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
6. Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.
Explanation, Part 1 (RiceRokit)
RiceRokit contains one member, (its founder) Kendo, who was once part of a band that is otherwise notable: Dubcat.[1][2][3][4]
According to article 6 of the Wikipedia Notability Guideline for Music (above), this would deem RiceRokit as "NOTABLE."
Importance and Significance of Dubcat, Part 2
As found in:
Wikipedia Notability Guideline for Music
Criteria for musicians and ensembles
A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
6. Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.
10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a compilation album, etc.
Explanation, Part 2 (Dubcat)
5. Long Beach Dub Allstars has released TWO albums on a major label: Right Back (1999) and Wonders of the World (2001)--DreamWorks Records[5]
Hepcat has released THREE albums on an important indie label: Scientific (1996 later reissued on Hellcat), Right on Time (1998), and Push n' Shove (2000)--Hellcat Records[6][7]
6. Dubcat contains SIX members, (its founders) Marshall Goodman, Jack Maness, Opie Ortiz, Tim Wu, David Fuentes (deceased), and Deston Berry, who were once part of bands (and are still active in the groups) that are otherwise notable: Long Beach Dub Allstars and Hepcat.[8][9]
10. The Long Beach Dub Allstars' song "Sunny Hours" was used as the title track for the sitcom Joey (TV series), starring Matt LeBlanc reprising his role as Joey Tribbiani from the popular sitcom Friends.[10][11]
According to article 5, 6, and 10 of the Wikipedia Notability Guideline for Music (above), this would deem Dubcat as "NOTABLE."
Thank you very much for your consideration, and we look forward to discussing this with you further.
Sincerely,
TeamRokit
Notes
- ^ MySpace.com - "DUBCAT"-RIP DAVE FUENTES - Long Beach - Reggae - www.myspace.com/dubcatdave
- ^ MySpace.com - RiceRokit - SAN DIEGO, California - Reggae / Ska - www.myspace.com/ricerokit
- ^ Megalith Records Online Ska MegaStore
- ^ CD Baby: RICEROKIT: Hang Loose
- ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach_Dub_Allstars
- ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepcat
- ^ MySpace.com - HEPCAT - Los Angeles - Ska / Reggae / Pop - www.myspace.com/hepcatlive
- ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach_Dub_Allstars
- ^ MySpace.com - Long Beach Dub All Stars - Long Beach, California - Rock / Reggae / Punk - www.myspace.com/longbeachduballstarsmusic
- ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach_Dub_Allstars
- ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_%28TV_series%29
Teamrokit (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Delete Neither RiceRokit or Dubcat seem to pass WP:Notability, WP:RS or WP:Verifiability as they only include "sources" such as the band's own pages and myspace. While there are links on RiceRokit to two places to purchase the cds, these do not suffice Fosnez (talk) 06:48, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Delete both, articles fails to establish notability. Esradekan Gibb "Talk" 11:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Delete – Just not there yet – but getting close. If someone can point out any source interviews from reliable information sources other than the ones shown here [1] I would change my mind. Thanks. Shoessss | Chat 17:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Keep. It is extremely simple and easy to find numerous articles, from reliable sources, substantiating both bands' importance. It's called "Google"--quite elementary, really. Here's a little taste: bon appétit!!!
1. http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/2/prweb104573.htm 2. http://www.iration.com/hepcat/4.11.02.html 3. http://www.megalithrecords.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/389 4. http://www.live2nite.com/band/RiceRokit 5. http://www.bellyup.com/show/detail/7636
Teamrokit (talk) 18:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Duplicate !vote by User:Teamrokit struck out. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - Sorry – but if you look at the link I provided - I believe it shows I know how to use Google. What I was asking for is something other than Press Releases, which are at the least very self-serving, and MySpace, which I will not even comment on. Provide sources that show in-depth coverage of the group from 3rd party reliable – creditable and verifiable sources and will gladly change my mind. Thanks. PS - Moved your Keep opinion to the discussion page as shown here to be a little bit more assessable [2]. Shoessss | Chat 19:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Delete The only sources provided appear to be MySpace, promotional sites and Wikipedia - none of these are reliable sources that could be used to verify the article's content. Without a way of verifying content notability concerns are secondary but the bands do not appear to have had the coverage required by the primary notability criteria or to have met the specific requirements set out in WP:MUSIC. Guest9999 (talk) 01:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Sincere apologies for the "Duplicate !vote"--didn't realize the Wiki protocol here...
Also, Mr./Ms. Shoessss, very sorry to imply that you were not Google-savvy--clearly you are a master of Googling, and should be damn proud ot it.
Concerning this dead horse named "Notability," that's receiving a good, proper flogging--why does no one address the numbered articles we clearly recorded above (in our Detailed "Keep" explanation from article creator bar--conveniently folded away, yes?), from YOUR VERY OWN Wikipedia:Notability (music)?
Everyone keeps incessantly repeating that Dubcat and RiceRokit aren't "notable," and yet FAIL TO ADDRESS the specific articles we mention.
ONCE AGAIN, these articles clearly state: "6. Contains at least ONE member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable". YOU PEOPLE WROTE THESE RULES.
These articles do NOT mention the MAXIMUM DEGREE OF SEPARATION (or "six degrees of Kevin Bacon"), allowed. Hence, Long Beach Dub Allstars and Hepcat are NOTABLE. Six members of those bands founded Dubcat. Hence, Dubcat is NOTABLE. One member of Dubcat founded RiceRokit. Hence, RiceRokit is NOTABLE. The end.
Regarding the "reliable sources" about the facts contained--you have us there. We could not find INTERVIEWS published in The Los Angeles Times, The New Yorker, or Hustler Magazine (or any such trusted references), that would satisfy your lofty standards.
The most reliable sources we can offer, are the testimonies of Marshall Goodman, Jack Maness, Opie Ortiz, Tim Wu, Deston Berry, and Kenji Donnot (Kendo). We will gladly furnish Wikipedia with information DIRECTLY from these sources, however you like--notarized, recorded, video-taped, or in person. Surely these sources are more reliable than any interview.
Again, thanks very much for your consideration, and we look forward to your choice.
Teamrokit (talk) 05:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment – That is a fair question and let me try to give an analogy. Let’s say we have a notable individual, who has an article here, and he works in a notable building, let’s say the Empire State building. Well the Empire State Building also has an article here. Not because the individual, who is notable works there. Rather because the building itself is notable. Now let’s take that same individual and have him work out of a garage. Does the garage deserve an article here? Of course not, there is not anything notable about it. On the other hand, can you place the garage in the individual’s article. Of course. Hope this helps you understand my reasoning. Good luck to you. By the way nice job with the info bar - Even in green for St. Paddy's day! Good job! Shoessss | Chat 09:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment SINCE NO DEBATER (rhymes with "HATER") CAN REFUTE THE NOTABILITY OF BOTH Dubcat AND RiceRokit SPECIFICALLY IN REGARD TO ARTICLES 5, 6, AND 10 OF "Criteria for musicians and ensembles", FROM THE WIKIPEDIA NOTABILITY GUIDELINE FOR MUSIC (Wikipedia:Notability (music)), IT IS OUR OPINION THAT WIKIPEDIA SHOULD EITHER, ALTER ITS NOTABILITY GUIDELINE FOR MUSIC, OR ALLOW THE Dubcat AND RiceRokit PAGES TO EXIST WITHIN THIS INFORMATIVE MICROCOSM.
THIS IS OUR FINAL WORD REGARDING THIS MATTER.
Teamrokit (talk) 02:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - LOL - or what? I am sorry, I do appreciate your passion, and in fact, the way you write. All I can say, is that you would be a wonderful addition to the Wikipedia team in editing and creating articles. Best of luck in any and all of your endeavors! Hope to see you contributing in other areas. A talent should never be wasted. Take care. Shoessss | Chat 02:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —Pixelface (talk) 02:57, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Weak Delete. First, I think it's important to acknowledge that Teamrokit is absolutely correct in their argument for derivative notability. I think that LBDA is notable, and assuming that everyone belonged to the band's claimed, a perfectly legitimate argument for notability exists. However, WP:MUSIC is a guideline, and must be construed using common sense. The guideline page itself indicates that there will be exceptions, and this is one. The claim is that a band without mention in reliable sources is notable because its membership derives from another band (Dubcat) that similarly lacks independent coverage, and never released an album. I'm not seeing it. Without multiple independent sources, we can't write an appropriate article. We can't use your first person information, accurate though it may be. And that, really, is the reason you see so many delete votes. Xymmax (talk) 02:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
