Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raditz

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect/merge to List of Saiyans in Dragon Ball. - brenneman 02:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raditz

This is a pretty minor character from a pretty large series. The page just expands upon a five episode period that the character was around for (out of around 300 total episodes), and throws in some other junk.. There is really no reason the page should should exist besides for the sake of existing, so it should be redirected to it's place on the List of Saiyans in Dragon Ball. Nemu 13:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge into above list, as per WP:FICT. This is a minor character without a surplus of extra information, so they should just be mentioned on a list and not in a standalone article. --Maelwys 18:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strongly Oppose - Nemu is just having the page deleted/merged just because everyone was against him at redirecting the page. He always does this. He wants every single character to be scrapped away to a list if they only appear in a few episodes. That's just wrong. Power level (Dragon Ball) 19:30, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
This is the kind of thing you do when people close to the article think otherwise. This helps get a better opinion of the situation. It's hardly because I'm petty. Of course I want minor characters on the list. You just said it yourself: "only appear in a few episodes". That hardly warrents a page. Nemu 19:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I also don't see how this is in anyway malicious intent, he's just following protocol. He tried to redirect it to a list, but when that failed he filed an AfD to get a larger community consensus. Him following protocol to accomplish something that you oppose isn't a valid reason to oppose the AfD, you need to give a better reason to keep this article than WP:ILIKEIT. --Maelwys 19:41, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment if it weren't for Raditz (Goku's brother) dying and involving the other Dragon Ball villains, there wouldn't have been a DBZ. Hence, my reasons are simply that Raditz stays because of two reasons:
  1. He is Son Goku's (main hero) full-blooded brother
  2. He sparked the beginning of the DBZ series with a bang
Ergo, had it not been for his presence, the main good guys and heroes of Earth wouldn't have become as strong as they are all now. What other reasons are there? Power level (Dragon Ball) 20:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect There shouldn't be an article for every minor character in DBZ. --Farix (Talk) 20:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strongly Oppose for the same reasons Power Level mentioned. Raditz is a significant character because of the impact he had on the storyline as well as his direct relation to the main protagonist. I don't think a character's significance can be summed up by the number of episodes they appear in. JamesMcCloud129 20:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment He was simply the first of Freeza's henchmen encounter by the "Z-team". His relations to Goku is irrelevant. --Farix (Talk) 20:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strongly Oppose this issue has already been disscused the consensus back then was No, He might not have been around long but he sure is a major character, actually he is the reason that Dragon Ball Z exists, although it seems Nemu is following protocol he is just doing this because he keep reviving the disscusion after a consensus was reached after he ultimately didn't get people behind him he decided to nominate the article for deletion he seems to enjoy doing that. -Dark Dragon Flame 23:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment I don't think it is about the joy of deleting an article. If Raditz is the main article, it's supposed to go into greater detail than the list entry... it's not doing that. It's supposed to give an out-of-universe perspective on the character... it's not doing that either. How about info on the creation of the character? Details of the appearances in other media? Something other than a summary of the five episodes it appears? It does none of that. So Strong Support: Merge.--Nohansen 00:28, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Not every character needs their own article, even if they are important to the plot. Takuthehedgehog 23:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge - Not around long enough to merit an article in my opinion--SUIT-n-tie 00:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Merge for the reasons cited above. There are fan-wikis for long sprawling articles and essays on characters like this. There's absolutely no reason why this character cannot be confined to a brief, paragraph long summary within a larger article. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. --Action Jackson IV 01:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
So it seems the merger takes it by consensus, lets give it some time maybe a day more if no changes are made in this disscusion by then we merge them. -Dark Dragon Flame 01:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
AfD discussions last 5 days. Sometimes it goes shorter when there are many comments which are unanimous in one direction or another, thus we can invoke WP:IAR via the snowball principle. Another cases are when nominations are made in bad faith, often to prove a WP:POINT or if the article falls under one of the criteria for speedy deletion. --Farix (Talk) 03:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Merge - As many others have stated, there's nothing in the article to warrant its existence. There's more information that could be added to the article, but still nothing that couldn't be added to his entry in a list. Wikipedia would be better served with Raditz as an entry on the character list. --DesireCampbell 03:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment: If, after the entry is added to the list, the information on Raditz balloons to a point where it seems it should be split into its own article, then so be it. But as it stands now - there's not enough. --DesireCampbell 03:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
*Comment - Why not redirect instead? If the article is merged, all of the useful info will be lost forever. I'm talkin' about the voice actors and such. They'll surely be forgotten. A merger is too much to bear, isn't it? Power level (Dragon Ball) 04:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion yes, but since it seems everyone wants the merge I can't really do anything here, unless we can all agree to redirect the page, Nemu's I-always-want-to-win attitude has won this one... -Dark Dragon Flame 04:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't worry about Nemu's I-always-want-to-win-blah-blah-blah attitude. "What goes around, comes around" I always say, and he'll soon learn that not everything can go the way he wants it to. Soon, very soon, that is, he'll get what's comin' for him... Power level (Dragon Ball) 06:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Do avoid issuing vield threats to other editors and remember to be WP:CIVIL. That is very much a blockable offense. --Farix (Talk) 12:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me be frank: I don't really care what happens to this article, as long as it's not an article after this. Frankly, I don't want there to be any information about English voice actors. I don't want his 'story recap' to be any more than two sentences. He's a very small character, he doesn't need his own article. Delete, Merge, Redirect, ehatever - get him the fuck out. --DesireCampbell 20:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Applause Well said. Beyond a plot synopses of the first few episodes (excluding Gohan's adventure in the woods), what is there to say about the guy besides that he was Goku's brother and that he's a bad guy? He kills a farmer, punks out Piccolo, Reveals Goku's origin and smacks Kuririn, kidnaps Gohan, eats a deer, thumbs his scouter, fights off Goku/Piccolo, dodges the Makankosappo, has his tail grabbed and tricks Goku, gets hurt by Gohan, gets grabbed by Goku, eats Makankosappo, DONE. Make those proper sentences and I don't see why it need be more than two paragraphs max (with maybe a sub section on VG appearences) Onikage725 23:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge. Raditz was, IMO, a minor character and more of a plot device then anything else. I don't feel he was complex enough, or had enough history/actions to warrant a full page to explain him when a paragraph or two in the character list and a summary in the saga page would suffice. Beowulph 05:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete or Merge Regardless of his relation to the protagonist, Raditz is a minor character found in one section of the whole series, and the only people who would oppose this are merely die hard fans who have a biased viewpoint. Passed the Frieza "saga," Raditz had no major role in the show; get rid of this article, one way or another. ♣ Klptyzm Chat wit' me § Contributions ♣ 06:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete/merge - minor character, major series, violates WP:FICT, no assertion of real-world notability (as usual). Moreschi Request a recording? 12:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge I believe that Raditz's relevence to the start of Dragonball Z is important, but beyond that, he's done nothing to directly influence the series. He isn't a major character, and even his relation to Goku isn't really that important. There honestly isn't enough direct info on him that should be considered for a full article. Perhaps just him being listed on the list of Saiyans (or whatever that article is called) is enough, I think it is. Raditz's relevence could be easily summed up in a simple five or six sentences. --Majinvegeta 05:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge One could add a line or two on Toriyama's creation I believe, but that would go just as well on the list entry. There simply isn't much that could be done to expand the entry. If someone thinks they can, I'm all for it. Onikage725 02:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose Even if he is not a character who has appeared a lot he is the member of Goku's family which gives him the right of having a family tree when he is mentioned. He also appears in a lot of video games so the article would be too long for a brief selection. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ghadden (talk • contribs) 03:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC).
    • Comment I don't think video game info would take up that much. His role isn't terribly significant in any of them, so nothing really needs to be said besides that he was in them. It has worked for many other characters in the past.
    • Comment We don't confer notability to people are relatives to notable people. So why should fictional characters be an exception? --Farix (Talk) 03:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I think if everybody is hellbent on taking down Raditz' page, perhaps we should start proposing mergers and redirects for characters like Nappa, Dodoria, and Zarbon, who had far less of a long-term impact on the story line than Raditz did. JamesMcCloud129 03:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment Granted that there are a lot of DB and DBZ character articles that should be merged. But to declare that Raditz is more important then Nappa, Dodoria, and Zarbon, that's just beyond silly. --Farix (Talk) 03:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
      • The long-term impact that Nappa, Dodoria and Zarbon had on the DBZ storyline is minimal. Nappa served to further show the strength of the Saiyans, and also the strength of the resurrected Goku. Zarbon and Dodoria served to illustrate the strength of Frieza's army and also as fodder to illustrate the strength of Vegeta. Isn't this the same role Raditz played, to kick off the saga and show the strength of the Saiyans? (This is of course ignoring the fact that, if not for Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa would likely have not even come to earth in the first place.) Their pages are basically carbon copies of Raditz's page anyway: a short summary of their story with some other "useless" info thrown in. These pages could thus easily be merged or redirected, like the rabble seems to want to do with Raditz... Nonetheless, they are minor characters no matter how you spin it, and either all the minor characters get their own pages or none of them do. Otherwise you're just splitting hairs. JamesMcCloud129 03:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I'd just like to say that Napp and Zarbon were far more of a presnece in this series than Raditz (Dodoria's arguable). The fact that Raditz dropped the opening plot twist has absolutely no bearing on whether or not he deserves his own headline here at Wikipedia. What is important is the content of the article. Nappa was in far more episodes, was the personal trainer and right hand man of one the first major villains and was pretty much the face of the "Saiyan threat" for most of the battle (responsible for the deaths of 3 of the Z senshi and incapaciting two others before Goku showed up). Zarbon and Dodoria showed similar presence as Freeza's top men, and Zarbon is present in most of what FUNimation dubbed the "Namek Saga," even handing Vegeta a severe thrashing during his tenure. Raditz really just showed up, dropped a plot twist, bit off more than he could chew, and faded into obsucurity. Giving him a full article is like giving King Cold a full article. Onikage725 14:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Nappa killed three of the Z warriors and was in more episodes, yes. But Raditz' actions led to the death of the main protagonist, Goku. Raditz's presence also was the catalyst for Piccolo and Goku joining forces (a fact that has not been yet mentioned, but is still a very significant turning point in the series). If Goku had not died during Raditz's incursion, he would not have met King Kai, done all of that training, yadda yadda. Zarbon's biggest feat was whipping Vegeta. But so what? Raditz was one of the only villains to ever punk out Goku like he did. Does that make him more worthy of an article? Apparently not. Like I said, people now are just splitting hairs -- either give the minor characters all their own pages, or put them all in separate, collective lists. Not to mention, the same junk that people are complaining about on Raditz's page (voice actors, video game info) all exists as filler on Nappa's, Dodoria's and Zarbon's pages which are barely longer than Raditz's page. If you're going to start merging and redirecting, do it accross the board, don't just pick and choose characters here and there. It'll keep things consistent and tidy. JamesMcCloud129 18:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
We're currently discussing which articles to keep here. Nemu 18:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I hadn't seen that. JamesMcCloud129 18:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment So far, the "keep" comments have only pointed that the character was the first villain, albeit short-lived, of the DBZ storyline and that he is the brother of the main protagonist of the series. First of all, we don't extend notability to family members simply because they are family under any of the notability guidelines. Also, there really isn't much to say about this character. And while he does start the ball rolling for DBZ, he is no more important for that then Kagome's cat who was likewise merged into a list. --Farix (Talk) 03:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete or merge Either way, the character is not notable enough to deserve its own page. -- Chairman S. Talk Contribs 11:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.