Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raasta

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Kimchi.sg 16:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raasta

Doesn't meet WP:MUSIC. Has only released 1 single, hasn't even released any albums. Very few relevant Google hits, and they're nowhere near the first page. Rory096 06:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• • Apparently does meet WP:MUSIC if their single really was #1, the article didn't mention that at the time. --Rory096 19:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Do we know the list is actually the Pakistani pop charts? I would withdraw my vote if that can be established, but the site looks specious. ~ trialsanderrors 21:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. joshbuddy, talk 06:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
• Okay so is it NECESSARY for a band to release a whole album prior to them being considered worthy of existing in the realm of wikipedia?

Funny how easily you say "only released 1 single" - their single has gone to # 1 go here and check for yourself http://www.itspakistan.net/music/default.aspx - scroll down and you'll see. Its the Pakistani pop charts.

Would it not be unprofessional of wikipedia, to NOT accomodate a profile/article about a band whose single has gone to # 1 in its relevant market? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Glovste (talk • contribs) .

• • Yes, going to number 1 is also a good criterion to include an article. However, such a chart the musician lists on needs to be international or kept by a reputable radio station or magazine. This just appears to be the chart of a random website. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Don't remove the AFD tag on the page Glovste. All it does is allow the AFD to continue without potential Raasta fans knowing about it. If you really want to help your case, look at WP:MUSIC and make an argument that it fits under one of these criteria, attacks on professionalism isn't going to sway anyone. That said, I looked at the page, and I'm not convinced it's a national chart. It seems to be a chart for listens on that particular website. Yet, if they're a non-English language band (like song title would suggest), then the Google test might be irrelevant. hateless 06:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, when it comes to Pakistani music, I would say the Google test is useless. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
• Comment 28,000 listens in a country with 164,000,000 people? That means 0.017% of the population of Pakistan has listened to it. ~ trialsanderrors 08:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Reply Dunno how you got the figure of 28K listens. Is it that 28k albums are sold? If so, the listenership wd be much higher, 'coz the average family size in pakistan wd be much higher than a western household. Also, ppl. don't need to buy a single (In India, the no. of singles released could be counted on the fingers of one hand; dunno abt Pakistan though) to listen to it, thanks to FM radio and cable TV. If you are refering to the 28, 000 listens mentioned on the website, it refers to the no. of times people listened to it on the website and not total listens. Given the literacy levels and internet access in Pakistan, i don't think too many ppl wd be logging on to the website to listen to the song. But on radio and TV, they can listen. --Gurubrahma 07:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It's the number from the website, which is sadly the only source we have from which to establish notability. Not to mention that it falls quite a bit short of being reliable. Other evidence is always welcome. When will people learn that WP is not built on faith but on verifiable evidence. ~ trialsanderrors 08:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom and per Trialsanderrors' comment. --Coredesat 10:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment The only Google reference I can find to the song is the cited website. It won't help to search for "Raasta", which is a common word in Urdu and Hindi. NawlinWiki 12:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Notability not established. ~ trialsanderrors 17:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Further to the link above which says their song went to #1 in Pakistan, to acertain their notability go to http://www.pakmanzil.com/revamped/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=MostPopular as well as http://www.pakmanzil.com/revamped/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=TopRated - their song is not only the most popular on one of the leading Pakistani pop websites, but it is also the highest rated. Please consider. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.76.159 (talk • contribs)
  • Response First, I posted a final warning on your talk page for trying to remove my edits. If you continue vandalizing Wikipedia you will be blocked. Second, both links lead to "access denied" pages. Read WP:RS to see what reliable sources are for WP content. ~ trialsanderrors 18:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Response Yeah, I get the point. Have I 'vandalised' since the multiple warnings? No, I have not. So why are you repeating yourself, when it clearly does not appear necessary. Secondly, what you've written here and tagged as Response is hardly a response to the comment I left about the band's notability - to access those pages all you need to do is register yourself a free account, which takes less than 2 minutes, and being a wikipedia 'admin' you are obliged to do whatever it takes to ascertain the worthiness of an article, so I'm sure you will have the time for that. Your reply seemed more a case of letting out your personal frustration on me just because I removed your comments a couple of times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.76.159 (talk • contribs)
      • You are not in the position to remove my comments from this page. You are invited to respond to them, but if you remove them you're liable to be blocked for it. Also please sign your comments with four tildes ~~~~ so that we don't have to do it for you. About the pages you linked to, I don't see why I should sign up. I did a search for Raasta in the search field and came up with no articles and 2 downloads. Notability still not established. Also, I'm not an admin, and it is the duty of editors of an article to provide proof positive for the edits, not of other editors to provide proof negative. Read WP:V: The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it. ~ trialsanderrors 18:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Response**** The point about comment removal has been understood already and you do not have to continue going on about that. Since I have not removed any more of your comments ever since those warnings, there is no question of me being blocked for it, so I'm sure that we have both said enough on the topic of content removal and subsequent banning now. Any further attempts by you to continue to rave on about that topic should, and would be deemed as harassment, and otherwise futile at best. Now regading the 'burden of proof', it seems that you have a habit of stating the obvious, or shall I say, answering questions that were never even asked in the first place. I simply do not need to be told that it is my responsibility to demonstrate the validity of my article, rather than you trying to prove the invalidity thereof, because I already know that, and that is precisely what I am doing here. By directing you to proceed to a URL where this band's song is also the top rated, is precisely me 'providing proof positive', and you having to register an account on that website is simply part of the process in me providing that 'proof positive'. Nobody asked you to provide 'proof negative'. ~ signed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.76.159 (talk • contribs)
        • I'll leave it to the closing administrator to determine whether an apparent pay site with closed content counts as a reliable source for an unsigned band. End of communication. ~ trialsanderrors 21:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi there, maybe you guys need to visit http://www.musicpakistan.net which is the most popular/dominant pop music website in the region and scroll down on the main page! that'll help settle this debate over this band's notability. They are obviously big in the region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.186.109 (talk • contribs)

No it doesn't, but thank you anyway. ~ trialsanderrors 07:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.