Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quinta das Lágrimas

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. KrakatoaKatie 03:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quinta das Lágrimas

Quinta das Lágrimas (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This page not only reads like an advertisement, but included no more than the lore available from the Hotel's website Galf 10:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

• Withdraw The article is now properly sourced and is focused on the site, not the hotel or the lore.Galf 15:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
  • And it's part copied from [here]. After a google seach that was as encyclopedic as I could get on the subject.Galf 11:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
• I do not think this article should be deleted. Quinta das Lágrimas is an important and historical place in Portugal. The article needs however some major clean-up, and the Hotel section should probably be removed altogether.--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (please join WP:Portugal or WP:SPOKEN) 01:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

  Strong Keep Changed my vote, see below. I removed the Hotel section. Keep the rest, fixing any copyvio issues. --Richard 07:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

  (Copied from my Richard|Talk Page) Hi, you cleaned up part of the article, however, I feel that the rest of it is little more than lore and next to impossible to source. even ignoring the language, reading it gives good hints. the Pedro and Ines affair has been the subject of a lot of writing, most of it heavy on the fiction...that's why I nominated it for deletion. Galf 08:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

  The fiction can be sourced as fiction. It is reasonable to say "According to legend..." as long as the story is properly characterized as legend and there is a verifiable source for the legend. I'm sure one can be found if someone digs around. Lack of sourcing is not a reason for deletion. What we should be trying to do is make sure that this isn't just a legend that someone made upon their own and inserted into Wikipedia for fun. --Richard 15:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

  Actually, the article hints at the sources.

  The love of Pedro and Inês, has survived through the centuries in the works of authors such as Camões, Victor Hugo, Ezra Pound, Stendhal or Agustina Bessa-Luis.

  All that's left is for someone to go find the specific works in which the legend is mentioned. (Unless, of course, this is a hoax.) --Richard 15:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

  The legend is based on historical fact (see Inês de Castro). What remains to be done is to prove that Quinta das Lagrimas is connected to the legend (I think the website is sufficient), resolve the copyvio issues and source the works of the authors (Hugo, Pound, Stendahl). --Richard 15:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

  I'd like to point out that the addition to the Inês de Castro article was done by the same user that created the Quinta das Lágrimas article [diff] and here [diff]. Plus the Hannover website was published by a secondary school and lists the said hotel as one of the sources [here]. Hardly what I would call reputable, which leaves us on the same problem once again, the only information comes from the hotel itself. Which leaves us at the same point and convinces me once again this is nothing more than spam. The literary references are also extremly vague, the Pedro-Ines affair is well known, but HEAVILY covered in lore. The article now has 3 lines on the farm and the rest of the article covers the affair... Galf 08:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

  Merge with Inês de Castro and Redirect Galf has a good point that the current article has very little on the farm/hotel and is now mostly about the affair which is covered in the Inês de Castro article.

  There's no problem with Wikipedia covering lore provided that the lore is notable. However, the article is now more about the Pedro-Ines legend than about the hotel/farm. We should merge it back into the Ines article and redirect this title to the Ines article. I think the hotel is worth mentioning in Wikipedia because of the connection to the legendbut it does not merit a separate article unless someone can add additional details that are encyclopedic rather than advertising. --Richard 20:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletions. --   ⇒ bsnowball  09:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per the improvements made since AFD (see diff) and also per Richard's convincing arguments. -- Black Falcon 07:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The reference to the Hotel should not have been deleted. The last time I visited the place was 20 years ago, and to suggest the place to foreign friends, reference to the hotel is important. Having accomodations in such a beautiful place is important information.

I strongly urge that the Hotel information may be diluted but absolutely not erased.

• Keep I have found proper information about it. It's a classified historical Building.I'll rework the article into shape.Galf 10:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I'm surprised you didn't know that, Galf. Unless you aren't an "alfacinha". That may be it, i.e. people outside Estremadura not knowing of it. For all it's worth, I think the article is starting to shape up.--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (please join WP:Portugal or WP:SPOKEN) 16:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.