Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pum Pum

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was REDIRECT to Punani. Owen× ☎ 16:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pum Pum

One view of women in Trinidad and Tobago. Hoax / original research. Zero Google hits on, for example ' "pum pum" aleong'. -- RHaworth 10:47, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, some sort of personal research. — JIP | Talk 10:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete weird original research/essay. Dealing with women gives men fever and rashes, which are then cured by holy water?? Confusing almost to the point of being nonsense, and certainly not an encyclopedic treatment of any topic. Delete per WP:NOR. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:04, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Redirect to pussy - It's a schoolboy (?) essay about human sexuality. Just in case it wasn't obvious, "pum pum" = "pussy" (to translate a Jamaican colloquialism into an American one). Guettarda 15:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Note - if this is deleted, would the deleting admin also please delete Pum pum, which is where the article was originally placed. Guettarda 15:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - I am confused why you used that specific google term. I would have thought that Pum Pum and Trinidad was more logical. And yes, it is confirmed to be true. The essay looks too detailed to be a hoax anyway. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 16:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Sure, it's a real word. But this is appears to be a personal essay. It lacks any encyclopaedic content. And the title is nothing more than a slang term for vagina. Guettarda 17:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, unless someone can provide a cite. The google search above doesn't seem to lead anywhere relevant, unless I overlooked it. Tom Harrison ^(talk) 17:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep; notable, mildly interesting. Tom Harrison ^(talk) 04:23, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment - Here is your cite [1]. I will quote the relevant part, "PUM-PUM a woman's genitals (6) ". It is the Trinidadian equivalent of punani apparently. Another cite here [2] and here [3]. It is in extremely widespread use, but, as you can see from the google links I provided above, it has come to mean more than just a woman's genitals. It can refer to a type of sexy close-fitting shorts (worn by women) called "pum pum shorts". It can refer to a woman herself "a bunch of pum pums are dancing". And it seems to have other meanings as well. It also seems to be a Rastafarian word, not just Trinidadian. Oh, and here is a cite giving its meaning as "vagina" or "woman" [4]. And, whilst this is slang, it is clearly in widespread use in Rastafarian areas with 14,400 google hits. As for whether the current content of this article is correct, that's another matter entirely. But the title "Pum Pum" does seem to mean what the article suggests. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 18:02, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually, sorry, I should correct that. It seems that the word Punani, as popularised by Ali G, was derived from the rastafarian word Pum Pum (here). Ali G liked to pretend to be reggae after all. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 18:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Interesting on punani - I know it as a Trini word long before pum pum (a J'can word) came into common usage. Given usage I assumes that punani had hindi origins. As for "pum pum shorts" - the meaning is the same - it's shorts that are so small and tight that they show off just about everything. The alternate usage is a dicdef though, not really an article. Guettarda 18:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
      • You should add that to the punani article then. Right now it just says that punani was invented by Ali . Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 19:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
        • Problem is, it's just a word I grew up with, not something I have any definite knowledge of. But I should find out, if I can. Guettarda 19:30, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to punani and it could possibly have a small paragraph in that article. Capitalistroadster 18:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm not convinced that they mean the same thing. Historically, maybe, but currently no. Punani only means vagina. Pum pum can also mean women. They also have deeper meanings that differ. I am beginning to think that I should have left the essay in there. It looks like that explained everything nicely. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• I got a link to something that traces the history of the word pum pum here [5]. I am not sure how reliable the information is, but it seems that they are suggesting that Punany came first, and Pum Pum is a "dirtier" version of Punany, since Punany eventually came to be more polite. But apparently now even Pum Pum is not derogatory anymore. By the way, the Punani article is really inaccurate if it credits it to Ali G, given this evidence. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 19:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Its actually a bit confusing, since it seems to be both derogatory and a compliment at the same time. I guess its similar to slut in that way, or perhaps ho. It'd be interesting to find out what its deeper meaning is, and its place in rastafarian culture. Oh, and apparently since Punany/Punani is now Americanised, Pum Pum is now the preferred term in Rastafarian culture, since they now view the definition of Punany as being Americanised. It'd be an interesting thing to look in to. Pity if we have to wipe something that's enormously popular and in widespread use with cultural significance before we've had a chance to write it properly. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 19:48, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Not too sure about your use of "rastafarian" - it's a "mainstream" word (crude, not polite, but not limited to a single subculture), in Jamaica, Trinidad, and almost certainly the rest of the English-speaking Caribbean. As for Americanisation of punani, etc., what's your source for that assertion? Guettarda 22:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I listed the sources there in the article. Go fix the article then. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 03:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.